Welcome to this special recap of Your Pharmacy Career podcast, proudly produced by Raven’s Recruitment - Australia’s experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years.
Some careers begin with a straight line. Others are built through detours, doubts, bold pivots and unexpected returns. In this episode of Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, Ellen Bolger-Rowe shares a journey with host Krysti-Lee Patterson that is anything but conventional: from junior pharmacy assistant, to pharmacy student, to performing arts student, and then back into pharmacy with a renewed sense of purpose. It is an honest and refreshing conversation about self-belief, mental health, mentorship and the value of taking a different path.
Episode Summary
Ellen Bolger-Rowe’s story begins in regional New South Wales, where she started working in community pharmacy as a junior assistant while still in high school. Pharmacy felt like a natural next step, and she entered a pharmacy degree through early entry. But while the decision made sense on paper, it did not feel right in practice.
In the first stage of her university journey, Ellen struggled with self-doubt, pressure and mental health challenges. Like many young students, she found herself asking difficult questions: Was she smart enough? Was she on the right path? Was she pursuing pharmacy because she genuinely wanted it, or because it seemed like the logical choice? Eventually, she made the difficult decision to step away from the degree.
What followed was not a failure, but a period of discovery.
Ellen immersed herself in dance and performance, including Highland dancing on international stages and later completing an advanced diploma in performing arts in Sydney. Through that experience, she developed confidence, resilience and a much deeper understanding of herself. She learned how she works best, what energises her, and what kind of life she wanted to build. Just as importantly, she discovered that stepping away from one dream does not mean closing the door on another forever.
Even while pursuing performing arts, pharmacy never fully disappeared from her life. She continued working in pharmacy roles at different times, and those workplaces played a significant part in keeping the connection alive. Supportive mentors and employers gave her the space to explore both her creative passions and her healthcare interests. Over time, that support helped her see pharmacy in a new light.
When Ellen returned to regional pharmacy work, particularly in a rural setting, her perspective changed. She began to see the profession not as narrow or limiting, but as expansive, people-focused and full of opportunity. Training in areas such as Medisca and sleep apnoea support reignited her enthusiasm. She realised she wanted more responsibility, more impact and more room to grow. In 2023, she made the decision to return to pharmacy study at Charles Sturt University.
This time, it was different.
Rather than simply completing a degree, Ellen threw herself into the profession. She became involved in student leadership, joined the Student Representative Council, and later took on a leadership role with the National Australian Pharmacy Students’ Association. Her passion for rural health, community connection and advocacy became central to the way she now sees pharmacy.
One of the strongest themes in the episode is that pharmacy is no longer a profession with only a handful of obvious pathways. Ellen reflects on how, in her earlier experience, the options seemed limited to community, hospital or research. Today, she sees a much broader future: expanded scope, prescribing, stronger professional networks, deeper community engagement and even the possibility of business ownership.
Her journey through performing arts also shaped the kind of pharmacist and leader she wants to become. She now runs her own Highland dance studio, where she mentors young dancers and encourages them to become the best versions of themselves rather than simply trying to outperform others. That same philosophy carries through to how she wants to practise pharmacy: helping people build confidence, improve health literacy and feel supported in their own lives and choices.
Throughout the conversation, Ellen returns to a few ideas again and again: listen to yourself, do not be afraid of changing direction, and trust that a non-linear path can still lead exactly where you need to go. Her story is a reminder that career growth is rarely tidy, and that some of the most meaningful progress happens when people allow themselves to pause, pivot and begin again.
Key Takeaways from the Episode
A non-linear career path can still lead to the right destination. Ellen’s story shows that stepping away from pharmacy did not mean abandoning it forever. In many ways, leaving helped her return with more clarity and commitment.
Mental health matters in career decision-making. Ellen speaks candidly about self-doubt, pressure and the emotional toll of university. Her honesty highlights how common these experiences are, especially for young students.
Mentorship can change everything. Supportive employers, colleagues and mentors helped Ellen stay connected to pharmacy and eventually gave her the confidence to return.
Creative pursuits can strengthen professional identity. Her background in dance and performing arts did not distract from pharmacy; it helped build confidence, adaptability, communication skills and leadership.
Rural pharmacy offers powerful professional and personal rewards. Ellen’s passion for regional practice comes through strongly. She values both the clinical opportunities and the human connection that rural pharmacy creates.
Pharmacy’s scope is evolving. One of the most optimistic parts of the episode is Ellen’s view that the profession now offers more pathways, more visibility and more exciting possibilities than before.
Leadership starts before graduation. Through student organisations and advocacy roles, Ellen has already begun shaping her profession before officially qualifying as a pharmacist.
Comfort zones expand through action. Her advice is simple and memorable: sometimes the only way forward is to throw yourself at something and trust that growth will follow.
Transferable skills matter. Whether gained through pharmacy, performing arts, teaching dance or student leadership, skills in communication, organisation and people management all build a stronger career foundation.
It is possible to want more than one thing. One of the episode’s most powerful messages is that people do not have to choose a single version of themselves forever. They can evolve, combine passions and redefine success on their own terms.
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Full Episode Transcript
speaker-0 (00:01.026)
Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Raven's Recruitment, the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years. Every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession, from expert advice to inspiring success stories. We're here to spark ideas, guide your career and help you achieve your goals. Stay tuned. The next step in your pharmacy journey starts here.
Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Your Pharmacy Career podcast. I'm your host as always, Krysti-Lee Patterson and this podcast is all about sharing the real career journeys of pharmacists right across Australia. Today I'm joined by Ellen Bolger-Rowe, a final year pharmacy student at Charles Sturt University who has spent more than a decade working in community pharmacy.
She's had a unique journey throughout her time in pharmacy and outside of pharmacy. And she is also the secretary of the National Australian Pharmacy Students Association. Ellen, welcome to the podcast.
speaker-1 (01:05.368)
Thanks, Krysti, for having me. This is very exciting.
speaker-0 (01:08.478)
Now, Ellen, I ask everyone the same question at the beginning of each podcast, and it's why did you decide to become a pharmacist? But I think your answer may be a little bit different because you decided to become a pharmacist twice, I think.
speaker-1 (01:21.71)
Lae-Anne that is correct. when I was in high school, so this is going back quite a while now, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I actually think I originally wanted to do physio around that time of like year 10. And then at this time, I was working as a junior pharmacy assistant at a local pharmacy in Bathurst where I was doing my high school. And then I think I could just got to year 12. And I don't know, I just
someone was like, just go for early entry. was like, okay, cool. I'll go for early entry. got early entry into pharmacy, but then took a gap year. So that was like the first initiation. And without going into too many details just yet, I didn't complete university at that particular time. did take some time off because originally when I was like five years old, I wanted to be a dancer. So I started pharmacy, did a little bit of it and then
took a break and then went and did performing arts and a whole bunch of other things. And then came back to studying in 2023. So it was like a full decade between starting the first time and starting the second time. So to really answer your question as to why pharmacy, I think I've always been a personal health professional basically.
How this kind of looks is I love talking to people. love helping people discover their love for themselves and their love for looking after themselves. And I just, I love to bring that out in people and educate them and help them on their health journeys. So I think that's, I think that's the real reason why pharmacy.
speaker-0 (03:07.31)
Well I think that's a wonderful reason when you think about it. yeah, with your journey, you started out working in pharmacy as a junior and yeah, someone said early entry sounds great and you got in, but then you decided to focus on your dancing career, which is really cool. But when you made that decision to leave, that wouldn't have been an easy decision, right? Because,
sure you would have had your own doubts like, should I be doing this? Should I just stick with this and finish it? I'm sure people gave you a lot of advice whether you wanted it or not. So how did you come up to that first decision?
speaker-1 (03:50.466)
So the decision to leave the degree on... I was going to say definitely not the second time because I haven't left the degree yet. But the decision to leave the degree in 2015 was based around, I guess, a heap of mental health as well. And I'm very happy to talk about this because it's something that hits a lot of young people and even as we're older as well.
like thoughts start to pop into your head, things like, I'm not good enough, I'm not capable, I'm not smart enough. Like that was definitely one of the things that popped into my head quite frequently because I was just passing some of the subjects at the time. And although I did actually take a gap year, so I finished school in 2011, I took a gap year and I did a bit of my Highland dancing career overseas and then
started in 2013 as a first year pharmacy student in Orange. Again, like, I think it's that young mentality of, you've got your freedoms, but like, so many things happen in first year, I don't think my, my mind was coping that well without knowing that that's what was going on. Like, I think I was just kind of going through all the motions thinking this is what I have to do.
Like I remember having to pick the things that you wanted to do when you finished high school and it was like almost like the end of the world if you didn't have a plan.
speaker-0 (05:20.99)
Yes, I can definitely relate to that.
speaker-1 (05:24.206)
Yeah, and I think so many people can relate to that. Like whether it's like, whether your parents were really helpful and like, and actually helped you create what you wanted to do, but what you wanted to do, or whether your parents said, I think you should do this and you just kind of go with it. I genuinely think that that's where my mind went. Like I've been working in pharmacy since I was 14. So at this particular point, I would have been 17, 18, making these decisions. So I was 18.
my gap year. I was one of those people that like I graduated high school at 17, so like you know life began at 18.
speaker-0 (06:00.022)
Yes, me too.
speaker-1 (06:03.138)
And that's so daunting. Like I see that in a lot of university students now, like they're coming to university because they've finished high school in Queensland, for example, and they're still 16 to turn 17. And they're so young and like, don't get me wrong, there's so many students out there that know exactly what they want to do. But with that, there's more students that are still unsure or they didn't hit the mark of what they wanted to get into. Yeah. Like I think.
I think where I'm coming from is quite complex because I did dance as a HSC subject. did biology as a HSC subject. So I had both of those worlds still, I guess, on scales and it's like, which one do I pick? And I wasn't doing mainstream dancing at the time. I was doing Highland dancing, which is so not mainstream. And for those listening, Highland and Irish are very different.
speaker-0 (06:58.016)
Yes, I am.
speaker-1 (06:58.83)
I really recommend looking both of them up. Highland dancing you can perform on world stages quite frequently. I'm not too sure about the Irish dancing, but yeah, Highland dancing is more my forte.
speaker-0 (07:11.928)
So it sounds like you were at almost a little bit of a crossroad. So you had maybe let's call it the two personas of Ellen, the pharmacy persona and the dancing persona. And when you're that young and you're making that decision, it almost feels like, if I choose one path and not the other, I can't come back. And whether or not you felt like that, but I know I've felt like that in the past, like I've done multiple degrees and done multiple different things before I found pharmacy. And yeah, so I'm saying, but if I've
move off this path of pharmacy, I'm not going to be able to come back. I even still today have sometimes that thought in my mind as well with what I'm doing. how did you, I guess, blend the two? I think you did a really good job of blending the two. So talk me through that.
speaker-1 (08:01.142)
Yeah, of course. So to do a little backtrack, I've obviously left the degree in 2015. I completely cut ties, but I'm still working in the pharmacy as a Webster technician at this point. So I've quit being the casual pharmacy assistant as a pharmacy student, and I'm now working part-time basically as a Webster technician. So during that time, I decided to
During that time, I decided to dance overseas. So every year I would go with a team overseas and we would perform in a military tattoo or an international tattoo where I'm performing in front of thousands of people per night as part of a unique team doing a unique style of dance. So I found, and my workplace was amazing at the time too as well. Like they were very accommodating for these passions of mine. And I'm thoroughly grateful for.
workplaces I've been in that have allowed me to keep exploring my dancing. so as that's kind of progressed a bit more, the ignition of wanting to do more styles of dance have sort of sat and simmered in the background. So when I got to 2017, 2018, actually, let's backtrack another year, 2016, I've applied to do a Bachelor of Social Science Psychology and I've completed a whole year in that where I've done
Yeah, I've done a lot. Yeah. And in that particular degree, I've done a lot better than I did in pharmacy. Like I was getting distinctions in my subjects. So, but this kind of age range was around that 21, 22, 23 kind of age bracket. So early 20s still in that process of self discovery. But the fact that I'm doing better in these subjects, like made me feel a little bit like I wasn't stupid.
I was feeling stupid only just passing some of my subjects in the pharmacy. And even like I'd go to NAPSA Congress back in 2014 and I remember people talking about pharmacy 101 and how they got a HD and I'm like, just pass that. Like, I don't understand like what's wrong with me kind of thing. So backtracking a little bit and trying to blend in this dance side of things. Like I was speaking to someone that my mother got me in contact with. She was a psychologist.
speaker-2 (10:08.046)
I
speaker-1 (10:23.746)
hospital. And like she was into dancing and stuff like that. And she was like, you need when you're studying, you need to be studying in a way that like fits in with your lifestyle. Like you need to be moving while you're studying, you need to be, you know, stretching, like doing these sorts of things. So you're not feeling like you're stuck and limited in one spot. So that's a tool to try and blend like everything together because I'm not a stationary person. I like to move, I like to be
fit and healthy. I like to dance. When I don't dance, my body gets very irritable. And it's very evident in like the people that are immediately around me there. What's wrong with you? I'm sorry, I just can't sit still. Yes. So blending. Yeah, the start of blending my dancing and my pharmacy really started with my, my bosses and that and like being allowing me to do both. Right. And yes, was studying at the time, but still being able to practice in.
pharmacy setting as an assistant. Then when I decided around 2018 that I had enough of pharmacy and I just wanted to get out, I wanted to get out, like there was no career progression anymore. I still sat in pharmacy, I was actually doing more Websters, so this almost turned into a full-time job. I decided to do like community theatre and oh my god I fell in love with everything all over again. Like people were telling me
like amazing things about me and like boosting my self confidence up, which had definitely taken a hit from, you know, doing something like starting a career in pharmacy and then going, wow, like, I have to get out of this. And then thinking that that was the only career choice I had. going from that to people actually telling you, hey, you should give this a shot, you should go and try performing arts. then getting some amazing mentors in that space and
they've encouraged me to go to Sydney and do an advanced diploma of performing arts. So at this particular point, I'm like, wow, okay, let's, let's try like I have low, like self inhibition at the moment. So I'm thinking like, how do I do this? I don't know what to do. Like I remember my first audition, like I auditioned for Brent Street and I didn't get a, I didn't get the best vibe for me. Right. I'm definitely at this point, I'm 25, 26.
speaker-1 (12:41.24)
So I'm a lot older than a lot of those people that are coming straight out of school and going straight into performing arts. Like my body does not work the same as an eight year old.
speaker-0 (12:48.716)
A little bit different, yes.
speaker-1 (12:51.384)
So entering this industry a lot later, and there's still so many self doubt things going through my brain because like mentors that I had when I was younger were like, you know, don't dance, like go and get a, go and get a degree in something and use your brain cause you're not stupid. But then I felt stupid because I wasn't passing everything. So it just became this vicious circle of just all this negative self talk that was going on in my head. And you're trying to be positive.
Like you're trying to be positive and then you're listening to other people being like, Hey, you sing amazingly. And then you listen to yourself sing and you're like, you're okay. Like, that what you're hearing? Like, so there's so many of those self doubts going through your brain. Anyway, I've auditioned for this place that does a bit of everything. So I'm dancing, singing, acting at this place called 85 international and that's in North Strathfield. And I got in and I think like I take a lot of pride in the fact that I did get into something.
In 2019, like I remember getting that acceptance letter and being like, Oh, thank goodness. Like I can go and get all of this out of my system now. And it was hard. Like I've moved to Sydney 2020 and we all know what 2020 was like. No one talks about 2020 anymore, but like you moved to Sydney and there was just so much freshness about it. I did get a job in pharmacy at the time and they wanted me to do extra stuff. They were like, Oh, you can work in sleep apnea. You can do this. You can do that.
But like, my passion now was to do performing arts. So I had to start to step away from pharmacy. And at this point, like I had been working in pharmacy from 2008 until I left in like January, 2020, like my job that I had been at with my first employer, then yeah, have gone to this new pharmacy and they basically don't want me to be.
studying a performing arts diploma and want me to be working in pharmacy. So that was when I kind of went, need to step out of this. So I actually quit pharmacy for a whole year, one whole year. That's all it took one whole year. 2021. I focused on my second year of my performing arts diploma, but I got to halfway through the end. this is because it's a two year diploma. I halfway through the second year and I was so over it. Like
speaker-1 (15:06.848)
I'm so grateful for the skills that I had and developed on in this two year diploma, but I was like, I don't want to work on a cruise ship. Like I want to move back to the country. I want to have a quieter life.
speaker-0 (15:16.926)
huh.
Especially post-COVID, right? We all know what happened with the grill.
speaker-1 (15:23.854)
Yeah, let's move to the country to be honest, like, get away from people. Yeah, so that's a lot of where my passion, I think, started. Like my passion for being in a rural and regional setting was so much, so much more emphasized from having lived in the city for two years. So when I moved back out to the country, like I actually did some background filming extra work sort of thing while I was working in a pharmacy because
Funnily enough, I went, I need a full-time job now that I've just spent two years in Sydney and now I have no money. So I've applied to one of the local pharmacies because I've moved back to Bathurst and I applied to another pharmacy that I saw was hiring because my previous employer wasn't hiring at the time and I got full-time work and this pharmacy was like,
speaker-0 (15:57.4)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (16:13.364)
so instrumental at bringing me back into the industry. I did have a mentor at my previous work who was like, you should go back into pharmacy and I just flat out said no to her. Yeah, not I think took it very lightly, but was quite excited when I did eventually tell her that I was no longer working. I'm sorry, I was no longer going to go down the performing arts diploma. Like she was very excited to hear me coming back to pharmacy. So that that kind of gave me a bit of a boost and I think her boost as well. But it's all about the people that
are behind you, think, in those first steps coming back into pharmacy. And this pharmacy that does so well in Bathurst has encouraged me and they trained me in Medisca. They put everything into me to do sleep apnea training. And now I'm so much more comfortable talking to health professionals that aren't just other pharmacists, like doctors, sleep technicians that are at the hospital. It really reignited a lot of passion and I still like...
Within the first six months of working in that pharmacy, was like, no, I'm not going back to pharmacy. No matter what you guys say to me, I'm not going back to the degree. Then I think one day I just kind of, I sat on it for a little bit. was like, oh, like to be honest, the mental health thing like kicked in because I was standing at the back counter, like helping customers, but I can't fully help them because I'm not fully qualified pharmacists. And I'm like, what am I doing? Like I can do so much more than this.
Like I'm going to be so bored if this is my job for the rest of my life. Like I have to move forward. I can't stay here. Like, and then, yeah, so this was probably early January in 2023 that this all started to come about. And like within a, within a couple of weeks, I applied to go back to pharmacy at Charles State University, got accepted and then started my first year all over again.
Thankfully, I had some credits, so that took a lot of stress off me so I could ease myself back into studying. But yes, so without the mentorship of a lot of amazing people around me, I would never have gone back. And I haven't thought twice about it, to be honest. Like I threw myself into the degree. I became a student representative. this is
speaker-1 (18:35.82)
My third year being on the student representative council and we've made heaps of changes for the university itself. then threw myself, I guess not into NAPSA, I threw myself at NAPSA and then threw myself at NAPSA and said, take me guys, I'm ready to make change. So I started off as the rural health chair because I had a lot of passion in, like I said earlier, like increasing the health literacy of the communities that don't have access to.
speaker-0 (18:46.51)
I love that. I threw it myself.
speaker-1 (19:04.248)
health professionals on the regular basis. so my, my partner and I, so he's originally from Orange, like born and bred Orange. Like, I think we will stay here for a while because we love this area. as probably heard from earlier, like I'm never going back to the city, no matter what some of my friends would like me to do. Cause a lot of my friends live in Sydney and like catching up with them can be hard. Like it can be a little bit isolating here, even in Orange, but the skills that you develop.
speaker-0 (19:22.472)
Yes.
speaker-1 (19:34.29)
in like again, from my performing arts and also from just throwing myself at things. You create a lot of friendships out here and yeah, I really think rural is where my career is going to be. I very much look forward to seeing where my career goes now that I've just thrown myself at everything in the last few years.
speaker-0 (19:55.374)
That's really nice. And I think one thing that's kind of coming out of this conversation is, first of all, I love the way you say, I throw myself at things, but I think that's a really good thing to do because then sometimes you're not giving yourself a chance to think about all the things that could go wrong. Like just do it and think about it later, which some people and some, sometimes it's not always best to just jump into things without thinking it through, but.
Yeah, listening to your story and where you got to now. Yeah, I think that's probably a really big part of it. Like just giving it a go. Even if there are maybe thoughts in your head or people that should tell you otherwise, just do it anyway. And then the other part is that mentorship and those people around you, even very early on, like your first employer that enabled you to still work in pharmacy, but then actually
explore some of your passions. I think that's really important because yeah, if you maybe didn't have that experience early on and then you felt like you had to choose one or the other and completely quit, who knows, maybe we would have been having a very different conversation today.
speaker-1 (21:10.606)
100%. And I agree with you. If I just finished the degree when I was supposed to finish the degree in 2016, we would be having very different conversations. to be honest, I kind of thought when I was doing the degree back then, like, what am I working towards? Like this degree, I come working in pharmacy, this degree looks like nothing that I'm going to be doing. Like I know it was early on in the degree, but it just felt like it wasn't actually
leading me anywhere. I think where it's leading to now with this expanded scope of practice, and a little bit more of awareness of what pharmacists can actually do is a little bit more enlightening, I think, for a lot more students now. Whereas I think, I think back in the day, and that sounds so, it sounds so silly to say, because like, it's not that long ago, like, it's still back in the day, back in my day, when
speaker-0 (22:03.95)
Thank you. Yes.
speaker-1 (22:09.26)
Yeah. So it just felt like you only had to do hospital or something clinical, or you had to go into research. Like I remember doing organic chemistry and thinking, what, like, what am I going to need this for? Like, I just want to talk to people. want them to understand the medications that they're on. I want them to understand that there's help in the community for them. like, I really want to put that community in community pharmacist.
We're not that person that people come to and just go, just give me my meds. Like, can you point me in the right direction of where I can find the closest barber for my hair that does good haircuts?
speaker-0 (22:40.098)
Yes.
speaker-0 (22:46.942)
Yes, that's I think.
speaker-1 (22:48.802)
Someone who knows what's going on in their community and can give recommendations. There's just so much more to a community pharmacist than I think back in the day. There's that word again. There's that phrase again. showing me and yeah, it's just so much more exciting to be a part of pharmacy now. Yeah.
speaker-0 (23:07.894)
I completely agree.
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I think in your situation, you are able to work in some really great pharmacies that were doing some pretty cool things at the time. Things that are something a bit different.
speaker-1 (23:36.572)
Sorry. Yeah.
speaker-0 (23:37.83)
And I think the fact that they were in rural areas, probably helped. I had a similar, I guess, opportunity where the very first pharmacy I ever worked at in Manchi was so far advanced in terms of scope back in that day. Like they had a weight loss clinic and things like that. And this was pre-vaccines. Pharmacists couldn't even do vaccines. They were doing blood pressures. They were doing all these cool things. And I thought, wow.
you can really have this huge impact on someone's life in the community. it sounds like that you also had that similar experience. And whilst I think there are some really great pharmacies in Metro in like I've worked in some of them in Sydney and they're amazing. But I think the opportunity to like, if you can work rural, you really do get that really clinical satisfaction.
speaker-1 (24:36.014)
Yeah, 100%. And I think it's not even just a clinical satisfaction as well too. It's also like as humans, we are created to connect with people. even just having a simple interaction with Mrs. Mary one day and then your second week of placement, you have another interaction with her and you can call her by her first name or you can even just say, I saw you last week. Like, how were you after the weekend? What did you get up to? Like you can have a bit more of a rep...
And you can, you know, go out to the pub for dinner with your family and then you might see so and so over there and they might just start coming up to you and having a chat about, I don't know, your kids, their kids, like, I know I'm very off topic of pharmacy right now, but these are
speaker-0 (25:21.416)
I think it is still, it very much still is right because you're the local pharmacist, people get to know you in your town or area that you live and that is I think the core of community pharmacy right? Community.
speaker-1 (25:36.994)
Yep, yep, 100%.
speaker-0 (25:39.18)
I also think too, was just reflecting on some of the things that you said earlier about, especially early on in your, I would say first degree of pharmacy and first trial and thinking there's only really two options or three options for career paths, industry, hospital and community. But then you got to experience some other career options, I guess, within pharmacy and
speaker-1 (25:48.888)
because
speaker-0 (26:07.182)
perhaps also through your work with Napsar and the student council and things like that, you also get to expose yourself to different people and see their really different careers and what they're doing. And that can be really inspiring. And it's funny, when I was doing my pharmacy degree, it wasn't my first degree. So I just wanted to get in and get it done. I didn't really care about doing any extracurricular student councils and things like that, except when I was in fourth year, because
I wanted to make sure I had a voice on where we were going for the graduation dinner. So that was my motivation, not advocacy or making the world a better place.
speaker-1 (26:46.254)
No, just making sure everyone got fed in.
speaker-0 (26:51.03)
But then post pharmacy degree, I saw the importance of being involved early on. And then that can have a really big impact on where your career will take you. You meet so many different people. It's really inspiring. I remember my first APP when I was an intern, I was like, wow, pharmacists can do so much more than what I could just see.
speaker-1 (27:17.102)
100%. And I like to be that person that advocates for these sorts of things. Like I do try to work really hard at Orange to encourage students to go to NAPSA Congress to like sign up for the Orange Student Representative Council or even their academic club. for the pharmacy students, that's Orange Pharmacy Students Association, because that's where you can make real change, even if it is just deciding where you want to have your graduation dinner.
because those skills are so valuable when it comes into going into a workplace and something I have found out from myself from being part of all of these clubs and managing people. I'm like, wow, I actually wouldn't mind owning my own pharmacy and managing my own team of people at some point. Like obviously it's not going to happen straight away because finances, but it's something that
speaker-0 (28:10.581)
Yes.
speaker-1 (28:14.114)
These skills have really got me very excited about and like I've started to create goals of things that I want to achieve when I do become a pharmacist and something that I didn't see coming was that business ownership. Like definitely the first time around my first trial, I never saw myself as doing like owning or doing. I very much just thought I'd be community pharmacist and just work in that.
speaker-0 (28:43.668)
Yep. Yep. But see, I think now you've gone and expanded your, I guess, horizons. Yes. And you've grown and learned all these new skills and learned these skills by putting yourself in, I guess, positions that might make you a little bit uncomfortable, like going and applying for ED5 and doing your audition. that to me just sounds absolutely terrifying. it was. You give me an option to talk to you.
speaker-1 (28:51.669)
Hahaha
speaker-0 (29:12.216)
Thousands of people on a stage are much happier to do that than to do an audition.
speaker-1 (29:16.334)
I do remember in my 85 audition, I'm standing in the singing room with the person that's doing my audition and it's just that person and me and I'm singing a song after thinking that I can't really sing all that well. like just you've gone through something difficult. So the next time you go through something difficult, it will still be a little bit difficult, but you've already passed a comfort zone.
of yourself and your comfort zone just keeps expanding every time you do something out of that comfort zone, which is such a bizarre concept to think of when you, I guess, haven't really thought about it. When you're 17 and applying for all of these things, like you just kind of go, oh yeah, that's what I'm supposed to do. And then you get into something and you do start doing it. You're like, wow, comfort zone, maximum reached panic, freak out. Like.
speaker-0 (29:54.542)
Mmm, yep.
speaker-0 (30:10.083)
Yes.
speaker-1 (30:10.742)
Yeah. And having, and I genuinely think I don't actually have any skills as to how I developed that, like developed the things of throwing myself at something and then getting comfortable with that again. I don't know how I have technically figured that out. I think I just go in, have a panic, have a freak out. Everything's okay. Cause I haven't died. And then that's how my, my thing, like my, comfort zone expands.
speaker-0 (30:38.274)
Yes.
speaker-1 (30:39.542)
Yeah, so if have any tips for any students out there, it's just throw yourself at something. You're not going to die.
speaker-0 (30:47.029)
Mmm. Bars.
speaker-1 (30:48.492)
Yeah, yeah, it can be quite frightening.
speaker-0 (30:51.69)
Yeah, it can be and that's the thing and it's funny when you look at where you are now, no matter where you are in your pharmacy career, there was a point when you were maybe too scared and then you look back and you think, my gosh, that wasn't even that bad.
speaker-1 (31:07.864)
Yeah. I very much remember those moments now. I remember like when I talked to someone about quitting, I was so terrified. Being like, what will people think of me? Like what will my dance teacher think of me? Like she's told me to go and do pharmacy because like this is someone I value, right? So she's like, go do pharmacy because you have a brain, like don't do dancing. There's no money in it. I so terrified about like what she would say, what anyone would say.
speaker-0 (31:29.253)
Mm, yes.
speaker-1 (31:35.5)
I went and had those conversations anyway, and I just quit because I knew in my heart I couldn't continue at that particular point in time. But yeah, I look back now and like some of the adversities I've even gone through just in the dancing, dance industry section, like I now own my own dance studio where I have about 15 students. Mind you, we're only doing Highland dancing. So 15 students for Highland is pretty good.
speaker-0 (31:58.082)
That's actually huge, especially in a rural area. You should be very proud.
speaker-1 (32:02.826)
Yeah, thank you very much. I'm so proud of my students and all that they achieve. And something that this leadership has taught me is that I want to inspire my students to be the best versions of themselves rather than having to be the best dancer out on a field in amongst 20 other, like 20 other dancers. Like I want them to be comfortable in their own skin so they can make these decisions of going, yep, I can do that. I can't do that. I'm not ready for that.
I can quit something if I need to, like I don't make my students feel guilty about things that they need. And that's something I hope to bring out to like all my customers as well throughout my career.
speaker-0 (32:42.318)
think that you will and I think that's the fact that you even now, you're still blending your passions of helping people through your pharmacy, but then also, yeah, leaving a mark on these young dancers as well, which I think is amazing. And it's funny, you mentioned that you never thought that you would be a pharmacy owner, but look at you, you have running your own business.
speaker-1 (33:05.858)
Yeah. Like the first step to, yeah, I won't lie. Definitely didn't, still don't know what I'm doing half the time, but like I'll come up with something and be like, that will work a little bit. Let's, let's implement that little thing for this year and see if that works. Like I actually put a feedback format to all my parents and to be honest, none of them filled it out.
speaker-0 (33:24.174)
But you tried.
speaker-1 (33:25.868)
But I tried, I tried and I do, I ask for feedback now and like the general feedback is like, yep, you're doing great. And I'm like, okay, cool. Do I need, do you need anything fixed? But turns out like they're happy with what I'm delivering. But like, I know that I can deliver something differently, like create a plan for the day. So developing these skills with my own, yeah, like you said, with my own dance studio, like they will be transferable skills. And that's, yeah, that's something that's also very exciting for young people.
like going and doing lots of different things. Like anyone who is in the NAPSA board or the chairs or in any part of leadership at their university, those skills will be transferable and also expanded upon when you enter the industry in whatever capacity that you're entering it on.
speaker-0 (34:13.998)
100%. Well, Ellen, guess now you're in your final stages of your pharmacy degree in your last year. What excites you most about the future of pharmacy?
speaker-1 (34:25.594)
Ooh, this is a great question because I ponder about this all the time because I think that everyone, looks different. Right. I think the industry like always has been changing and changing rapidly. So keeping up to date with everything just seems almost psychotic a little bit. How else to phrase it?
speaker-0 (34:46.1)
Yes! my gosh!
speaker-1 (34:49.485)
There's always something changing. There's always new legislations coming in. One minute a drugs on the market, next minute it's not. One minute it's on the PBS, next minute it's not. So I think, like, I don't want to say that I want the industry to slow down. I want the industry to continue doing its thing. And like, you know, in a perfect world, it'd be great to understand and know everything all the time at any point when a customer asks you a question. But what
What really excites me about my career going forward, or even just the pharmacy career going forward is just the mentorship that everybody has with each other. Like we all become a bit of a spider web. And if you're the spider and you, and a little bit of something gets stuck in your web up the top there, you can go up there and you can go and talk to someone that might know something about X, Y, Z that you don't know anything about. And you can feel comfortable doing that. And
I think that's something that's the most exciting thing about pharmacy is the networking. It's getting rapport, getting, getting friendships in different aspects of pharmacy to help everyone on their pharmacy journey. Like we're all in this together as you know, someone who grew up in high school musical. That was another initiation. Like I just wanted to do musicals when I was a kid because like, man, high school musical is like everybody's in this together.
speaker-0 (36:15.284)
Yes, yes.
speaker-1 (36:16.856)
Yeah. So I think that's the most exciting thing for me. Like I can call on anyone I need in a time of. Anytime really? Yeah. And that's, think that's the exciting part for myself and my brain, because I kind of thought I was in this by myself. Like once I'm out working in a pharmacy and say, for example, I'm in, you know, whoop whoop and I'm the only pharmacist there for the day. And I have one person with me throughout the day and something's come up and I'm like,
speaker-0 (36:24.769)
Any time, I guess.
speaker-1 (36:46.218)
I don't know what I'm doing. I can call someone and then the networking I create and the people that I meet through those networking connections will help me feel more comfortable and confident as we go on. yes, of course, there's lots of other things happening in pharmacy that are so exciting, like our expanded scope of practice, our prescribing, our being able to, you know, buy your own stethoscope and listen to people's lungs. Like I did that on a placement once and that was like...
Actually, that was a little bit daunting because I was like, what am I hearing? don't know I'm supposed to be hearing. I don't know what's going on. yeah, like those things are exciting. And I'm really glad that we get to do that as young pharmacists now. And even if you are an older pharmacist, like, I hope you are excited about doing those things, if not, and I hope you are enjoying your career regardless, like how have you made your career?
speaker-0 (37:17.258)
even know what's it.
speaker-1 (37:38.712)
But yeah, moving forward, think pharmacy is going to be a very exciting career. And I do hope more people that are younger than me. Well, it's not hard to be younger than me to be honest, but more people that are coming out of high schools are more excited to try pharmacy because there is so much you can do now. And so much that is accessible from first year to see what you can do. Like, hope that answered your question. I felt like I went on a little bit of a tangent there, but.
speaker-0 (38:01.676)
Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-0 (38:07.182)
No, absolutely. Yeah, definitely answer the question. And so my last question before we wrap up this conversation is what's the best piece of advice you have ever received or is there a piece of advice that you've maybe heard somewhere along the way that you'd like to leave with our listeners?
speaker-1 (38:28.462)
Okay, I'll be honest, I have received multiple bits of advice throughout my career. Do I remember it? No. Do I feel like I have taken on board what someone has said and made it my own? Yes. If you ask me specifically what someone has said to me, I just, genuinely cannot tell you. All I know is through a lot of, a lot of what people tell me sits inside me like a little seed.
And it will just be stewed on, it'll be watered occasionally. And then the fruit of that will then turn into something that helps not just myself, but will help others as well. But if you must know one thing, you must know one thing. And I think this really resonated with me, sorry, at the Napsa Congress recently. So 2026 Napsa Congress.
And I think this sat well with me because I do so much. If anyone knows me personally, they know that I am above my head in the amount of stuff that I do on a constant basis. And it's that you can have it all. You can do it all. You can have it all. And this came from someone from the PSA, someone who has done a lot, someone who has worked really hard to get to where she is at the moment. And I think.
This kind of advice really helps a lot of people when they think they can't do everything. Like if you're trying to be a mom and you're trying to study, and I know so many of those at university, they're trying to do it all. And finding those skills to be able to do it all is the most important part. Like no one's going to know you better than you know yourself. I guess that's another thing, but that that's from the seed, right? Someone's told me that you can have it all. So that little seed has gone.
Like, you know yourself better than anyone else. You can develop your skills. You can develop your, like, little box of things that you need to tick off to help you do the things you need to do. I think I might leave it there with that. I will go down a tangent.
speaker-0 (40:42.476)
No, I love that Andrew. I actually think that's a perfect way to wrap up our conversation because if we reflect on our conversation and it from all the way back to when you were making that first decision about whether or not to, to focus on your dance career and I guess be a university dropout. But you, you know yourself better than anyone and you did it right. Because you knew that this, whether or not.
speaker-1 (41:02.626)
It's a cake.
speaker-0 (41:11.372)
you actually knew in the front of your mind that this was the best thing, but you just did it. You did it anyway. And I think that's, that's kind of been with you throughout your whole career today and will probably stay with you as you move into the future of your career. So Ellen, thank you so much for your time today and chatting with me. think our listeners will definitely take a lot out of this. I know I have, and if I can just kind of wrap up what we've talked about.
and pull out some key themes. think it's ensuring that you do also have or make sure that you also follow your passions and don't just focus on, yeah, like just, just your studies or like it's really important to have that outlet and that release, especially for mental health. And then the other thing is, yeah, having whether or not you realize it was
having the confidence but the confidence to listen to that little voice inside your head to do the things that you need to do. And even if it doesn't make sense to anyone else, it will make sense for you and your journey in the future. Because now when you look back at your career today, every decision, it makes sense. But at the time it might not have.
speaker-1 (42:23.658)
Yes, yeah, I think you're spot on there.
speaker-0 (42:26.562)
Well, thank you so much, Ellen, for being a guest today. To everyone listening, thank you for joining us on this episode of Your Career Pharmacy podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe and share the episode with your friends and colleagues. And we also have all of Ellen's details in the show notes. I'm sure she'd be more than happy to connect with you on LinkedIn. Thank you, Ellen.
speaker-1 (42:49.74)
Amazing. Thanks so much for having me.
speaker-0 (42:52.482)
Thanks for tuning in to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly sponsored by the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia. The PSA is committed to empowering pharmacists through advocacy, innovation and industry-leading professional development. To become a member or learn more about how the PSA can support your career, visit www.psa.org.au. Don't forget to subscribe, share this podcast with your colleagues and join us next time as we continue to explore your pharmacy career journey.
Final Thoughts
This episode is more than a career story. It is a conversation about identity, timing and courage. Ellen Bolger-Rowe offers a thoughtful reminder that career development is not always about moving quickly or getting it right the first time. Sometimes it is about taking the scenic route, learning who you are, and returning to a profession with a much stronger sense of purpose.
For pharmacy students, early career pharmacists and anyone questioning whether their path has looked “too messy” or “too delayed”, Ellen’s journey is reassuring. Growth does not always happen in a straight line. Sometimes the experiences that seem unrelated, or even like setbacks, become the very things that make someone a better healthcare professional.
Produced by Raven’s Recruitment, this episode captures exactly why career conversations in pharmacy matter: they help pharmacists and students see that there is no one right way to build a meaningful future in the profession.
What would change for more pharmacy students and early career professionals if they gave themselves permission to take a non-linear path?
