Welcome to this special recap of Your Pharmacy Career podcast, proudly produced by Raven’s Recruitment - Australia’s experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years.
Join Krysti-Lee Patterson in our latest podcast episode as she sits down with Nick Pincombe, a dedicated community pharmacist and passionate advocate for veteran and first responder health.
From serving in the military to navigating the path of pharmacy, Nick shares his incredible journey and insights into supporting veterans through innovative pharmacy services. Don't miss this inspiring conversation about resilience, service, and transformation.
Episode Summary
When Nick Pincombe walked away from a 12-year military career, it wasn’t because he was broken — far from it. It was because he’d finally found something that mattered more than medals, discipline, or even his rank: connection. In this deeply personal episode ofYour Pharmacy Career Podcast, Nick shares how he transitioned from infantry officer to community pharmacist and how his journey through trauma, family, study, and service has given him a new mission — supporting veterans and first responders with their health, dignity, and sense of identity.
Nick’s story isn’t one you’ll find in a university lecture or pharmacy textbook. This is the raw, unfiltered reality of someone who’s seen the worst of the world, lived with physical and psychological injuries, and come out the other side determined to help others find a path forward. For every pharmacist who has wondered how they can better support the veteran community, Nick’s insights are a masterclass in compassion, clinical collaboration, and true person-centred care.
Key Takeaways from the Episode
Transition Isn’t Linear: Nick shares the complexity of leaving military life and adjusting to civilian life, describing it as trying to fit back into a square peg after being reshaped by service.
Pharmacy as Purpose: Despite an early struggle with tertiary study due to ADHD, Nick returned to university to study pharmacy as a mature-age student, driven by lived experience and a desire to serve.
Mental Health in Uniform: From fractured vertebrae to undiagnosed PTSD, Nick breaks down the psychological and physical toll military service takes — and the barriers veterans face in asking for help.
The Quiet Crisis: Veterans don’t always "look like" what you expect. Many are younger, may still be working, and are hidden in plain sight in your pharmacy. Nick urges pharmacists to approach these patients with openness and curiosity.
Grassroots Innovation: What started as scribbled notes on the back of a prescription pad has evolved into a veteran-specific medication review service, supported by tracking apps and backed by real-world empathy.
Empowering, not prescribing: Nick doesn’t tell patients what to do — he equips them with language, confidence, and insight to advocate for themselves with their own GP or specialist.
Unfiltered Perspective: The conversation also explores psychedelic therapies, medicinal cannabis, EMDR, and how community pharmacists can hold space for patients beyond medication supply.
Real Impact: Nick’s work has had veterans sobbing in consultation rooms — not from grief, but relief. Someone finally saw them.
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Full Episode Transcript
Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Raven's Recruitment, the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years.
Every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession, from expert advice to inspiring success stories.
We're here to spark ideas, guide your career, and help you achieve your goals.
Stay tuned, the next step in your pharmacy journey starts here.
Welcome to another episode of Your Pharmacy Career podcast. I'm your host, Krysti-Lee Patterson. And today I am with a very interesting guest named Nick Pincombe. Nick is a community pharmacist working in Samford and is a passionate advocate for veteran and first responder health.
This is due to his unique background as an ex-infantry officer and pharmacist to address the complex health challenges faced by Australian veterans. Nick's military career has spanned 12 years of service, including regimental postings, recruit and soldier training, disaster relief in Brisbane and Townsville, operations officer and liaison officer roles and operational experience in Afghanistan. And for some of you that are listening that not sure what any of that means, I'm sure we'll get into the details.
Nick presented at the Conference of the Veteran Experience with Conventional and Psychedelic Therapies and was one of the five National Finalists for the Terry White Pharmacist of the Year Award in 2024 for his efforts within the community, suicide prevention and support for the veteran and first responder communities. Psychedelic therapy sounds pretty interesting. So Nick, welcome to the show.
Nick (01:41.623)
Thank you for having me on, I really appreciate it.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (01:44.6)
Thank you so much. So Nick, normally I ask people the first question as why did they choose pharmacy? But I think I'll actually ask you if you could tell us a little bit about your military career first, because that's actually something that you did before starting pharmacy. And so maybe you could let everyone know, why did you decide to go down into the military and what sort of roles did you have?
Nick (02:15.106)
So I signed up for the military basically straight out of school. I was hell bent on doing, initially becoming a pilot. So I joined the Air Force. I ended up signing up under a fighter controller role and I went to the Australian Defence Force Academy. I spent my, I spent two years at the Australian Defence Force Academy and decided that at that point in time, tertiary study wasn't for me.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (02:20.172)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (02:41.483)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (02:42.275)
Perhaps it was horrendously uncontrolled ADHD that didn't help, but it was a, I started to see what other jobs or occupations were available within defense. And because I grew up in the Bush and Victoria, I lent towards moving back to a role that I would be working outdoors. So I ended up transitioning to go directly to the Royal Military College at Duntroon And I did my 18 months there. I then went and got
I went off into infantry corps. I got qualified.
with all the trade qualifications and I ended up in a infantry battalion up in a second battalion Royal Australian Regiment up in Townsville where I spent a couple of years doing my infantry platoon commander time, specialist role as the salt mining platoon commander. And then from there I basically bounced between instructional roles at Kapuka, which was actually a lot more fun than people initially gave it credit for. I did operational.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (03:42.478)
Okay, yeah.
Nick (03:43.364)
It was actually quite a rewarding job. We worked very hard. I didn't really see my partner in daylight that entire year because of how often we were working, but I met some fantastic people there. And I worked with some of my still really close friends. I then bounced between, so I went back to Townsville, did an operations officer job.
During that time I assisted with the flood assist down in Brisbane, the cyclone yard work, getting people to go up seas, to go to team war, more training roles under the operations officer banner. So basically just trying to do everything my boss needs done. I then posted down to Sydney and that's where I actually met my wife.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (04:24.558)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (04:32.291)
I did an adjutant job down there at a training center. I was scheduled to do a particularly arduous course down there, at that point in time, I probably had no place doing that job anyway because of some injuries that I didn't really accept because that's pretty much what you do in the military is you hide your injuries so you can't lose your job.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (04:53.294)
Mmm.
Nick (04:57.571)
I didn't know it at the time, but I'd actually been walking around for a couple of years with several fractured vertebrae on my back. Yeah, so like, from that, like this is back in 2007, I think that happened. And I was...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (05:05.13)
wow, that's crazy.
Nick (05:14.147)
I wouldn't say poorly managed, I didn't really help myself either. Because we sort of just crack on and say we're right to do the job and we want to go and do the job. Otherwise we're basically training for the game and never getting to play, so to speak. And then at the end of, sorry, midway through 2013 I deployed to Afghanistan. I did an LO job there and I did a headquarters role job.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (05:18.126)
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (05:27.618)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (05:40.388)
We got to see a couple of places. We got to see how fortunate we are to live in Australia. And then came back to Australia. And then basically got off the plane, dropped down in like a hot rock.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (05:45.646)
Mm.
Nick (05:55.044)
My wife and I, my wife or my 2B wife would kick me out a bit at 3pm for that first week I was back to start functioning like a normal human. We got engaged, we bought a house out in Sydney and we flew to New York basically all in the same week and got married in Central Park and then came back and whilst we were in New York I was starting my pharmacy group on the top floor of one of the buildings on Fifth Avenue because that's when they had internet cafes inside.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (06:03.438)
Mm.
Nick (06:25.193)
There wasn't much people like even before I got back from overseas, like in September or October before that I was in Kandahar putting applications to universities to start studying pharmacy the following year. Yeah, and basically just started the study journey.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (06:25.579)
wow!
Krysti-Lee Patterson (06:46.296)
Wow, well, I'm sure like to ask the question of, yeah, describe your military career over what, over 10 years and to put it into just a couple of minutes, surely doesn't really give it any justice. And you mentioned that you were started in the infantry and I understand what that is. So my.
husband's actually ex-RAAF and my grandfather is actually a Vietnam veteran. He was in the infantry in Vietnam. So I understand what that means. So that's basically, I guess if I can say laymans it's like you're the ones up the up the front like the front line. Is that correct? Like infantry, you're there, you're in it.
Nick (07:24.899)
Yeah, that's probably the easiest way to describe it. It's everyone you see in older style war films providing gunfire and being the boots on the ground to achieve the strategic effect also.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (07:42.154)
Yeah, I'm sure that would have been very like, it's funny, like you see that sort of thing on TV or movies and I really don't think people understand the toll it can take on people. Like, because at the end of the day, you're humans, right? And you've got to be trained in a way to do your job. But that would be really, really difficult to switch that off. And I know...
like saying my grandfather's experiences, he didn't start talking about it until probably only like three or four years ago. And then I didn't know my husband when he was in the military. I knew him post-military. But I think it can be quite isolating when you do leave, I guess, the military culture. So when you decide to
Nick (08:19.395)
Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (08:40.342)
I I don't know you would do it medically discharged, I'm not quite sure.
Nick (08:44.065)
Now, I actually, it's funny you mentioned that I transitioned out on my own terms. And actually, like only a couple of weeks ago, I've had what is effectively a retrospective medical discharge accepted, just because of its related conditions. When it, like regarding transition, the way that I describe to people, whether it's veterans or the general person,
Krysti-Lee Patterson (08:48.905)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (08:57.685)
Yeah, right.
Nick (09:09.291)
The way military training to put it in the most lay way to describe it is we're all.
All of us humans are all square pegs. We're all different size square pegs and we've all got different notches and cuts on us representing the experiences we've had throughout life. And then the military takes us and they shave your head and they dress you all the same and they whack you all into the same round hole. So you're all in our round pegs. And then when it comes time to transition out, you merge back into being your square peg and you have more cuts and notches on you. And you don't really remember or
capable of functioning as a fully functioning square peg again, so to speak. And it's that transition time. Some people do it, like some people have no issues. I had quite significant issues when I transitioned. It is like running, can feel like you're running on a highway and the highway is moving in all different directions and you can't maintain your feet. And...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (09:50.158)
Mm.
Nick (10:12.289)
the things that veterans or the things that military personnel will carry when they do get out because of the way we operate when we're in service, we are always okay. We don't need to ask for help. We are always productive members of teams and it's always our focus. There is never any, not that like when it comes to team cohesion, it's required. However, there is still a need for a hang on, I need this to function at 100 % and nobody ever.
really takes that on board. And so when you get out, you carry that with you and you're still fine. And you're still the toughest person you've ever met. And you can push through your injuries and pain and conditions and your hypervigilance issues, et cetera. But the reality is, it quite significantly affects obviously yourself, but also your family and those close to you.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (10:44.494)
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (11:04.643)
Mm.
Nick (11:05.987)
So for me, when I went back to uni, I did my degree over six years because a lot of my service related stuff came out, a lot of pain issues, a lot of poor pain management. I literally cut away a lot of people that I used to talk to and I've no longer had that network to talk to people.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (11:17.76)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (11:29.187)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (11:30.787)
and whether it's through pride, stubbornness, stupidity, take a pic.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (11:37.09)
Are they people that were in the military with you that you're referring to that you lost connection with? Yes. I think that is quite common, think. Well, I know from my husband's perspective, he has no contact really with anyone that he served with, which is quite sad. So...
Nick (11:42.071)
Yes, yes,
Nick (11:54.444)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a loss of community and there's an excellent book by, what's his last name, Younger. It's called Tribe and it discusses this. Sebastian Younger is his name, sorry. He wrote about a very, he was coupled with a...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (12:10.402)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (12:16.735)
an organisation Afghanistan and describes the teamwork and the environment because you lived it with them and it's no chance, it's whether you're police, fire, or an ammo or an ex-military individual you have that loss of tribe and when you talk about discussing identity you...
you lose that identity and to lead into to lead into assisting yourself or having others assist you. do remember a psychiatrist when we were talking at the psych conference in 2023 discussed how it's impossible to commence an individual on their journey to healing if they have no ego, so no identity. you therefore see, so you see veterans step out of their role
Krysti-Lee Patterson (12:59.367)
interesting.
Nick (13:05.155)
and quickly also, veterans step out of their identity and quickly slip off the face of the earth because the treatment is probably commencing in a way that shouldn't be treating, sorry, it shouldn't be commencing or there is no internal framework, so to speak, for them to be able to establish and be comfortable with a new identity to say, is who I am now, this is the set goals I have in life. I mean, it took me a long time to do that.
So it's, yeah, it's, I mean, it's a different perspective, but it's definitely one that I've seen in not just myself, but others.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (13:40.418)
Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned that the, like your study of the pharmacy degree took you six years and something that I'm always kind of saying to, to younger people that, or even older people that are wanting to study, but
But they'll give themselves, I guess, reasons why they can't do it and I'll have to do it part time and it's going to take me a lot longer. But Michael, you're going to the time's going to pass anyway. Who cares if it takes you a bit longer? But you also if I remember correctly in the beginning when you started chatting when you were at the Defense Force Academy.
Nick (14:12.93)
Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (14:23.426)
that you struggled with tertiary studies because of your ADHD. I'm just curious as to why you decided to go down that path again when it wasn't something that you found was suited for you back then. But then post-military life, you decided to, I guess, go back and give it a try.
Nick (14:28.493)
Yeah.
Nick (14:52.291)
Look, maturity I think is a big part of that. The first time I'd ever been on a plane was when I flew to Canberra to go to Adfoe. Like that's how inexperienced I was at life. The pre-percent work that I did before I commenced my degree, like commencing my pharmacy degree, was a lot of teaching myself how to actually study effectively. And I'm fortunate that I learned a lot from my wife because she's obviously done quite a lot of study.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (14:55.694)
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (15:15.276)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (15:22.403)
and she assisted me a great deal, all she has throughout her entire journey. It took a lot of groundwork. It was very frustrating, but we got through. I find it hilarious that I even got published when I left uni. So if anyone out there is having trouble falling asleep, you can find my paper on vitamin D and aphrosperosis nutrition journal.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (15:48.82)
Yeah wow I'll definitely be looking that up. We'll post a link to it in the show notes if anyone's interested. Or natural way to full sleep you won't need any dyes of him or anything like that.
Nick (15:55.404)
So it's sleeping two and a half.
Nick (16:01.507)
you
Nick (16:05.195)
Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (16:08.95)
So I guess when you decided that you were going to study pharmacy, do you think that the fact that your wife is a doctor and she was an intern early on when you were together, is that something that kind of...
push you into like, maybe healthcare is something that you want to go into, or do you think it's more the experiences that you had through your military career and then post-military that you thought this could be an opportunity for you to make a difference or it was just something completely different?
Nick (16:46.603)
I think the intent was, well, my wife and I had a no shit 11pm discussion one night and it was that she didn't want me continuing with this career because of the pathway that I'd selected and our relationship basically wouldn't survive. So I made the call and said, this is what's actually of value to me more than staying in that job.
and we had a discussion about the pathway forward and we talked about medicine, engineering and pharmacy and I've always had an interest in pharmacy and I very very much like the pharmacology side of everything. It's something that I find quite interesting and I'm able to visualize it quite well.
compared to the other aspects. I didn't have a council credit plan, so I went into internship. But yeah, that was the decision we made. The end state intent was for us to work together in a capacity, which we basically do now. We work in the same village and we discuss patient care pathways all the time, treatment.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (17:55.534)
Mm.
Nick (18:05.763)
We have very, very good discussions, interesting discussions about management.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (18:13.294)
Yeah, no, I think that's really inside for like, I always believe that people's experiences and things that they've done throughout their life definitely shapes who they are and like the choices that they take. So I guess for you studying as what's called a Mutual Aid student and you've had a lot of life experience behind you that
just the everyday person will never get to experience. Did you study by distance or did you?
Nick (18:47.073)
Yes, yeah. I studied through UNA. I used to joke that that course was designed as a degree made out of an obstacle course, but it was enjoyable. It has frustrations. Like studying by correspondence is always challenging.
There were a few instructors at our school who I still look up to in the other days. Anna Barwick is one. She's a lady who has a bottomless tank of empathy for people. And she was very good at shaping a lot of us to become the practitioners that we are in the other days.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (19:04.546)
Hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (19:18.605)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (19:26.371)
And like I was fortunate enough to work under Gudrun Dibberg for the research project and she just taught me so much about the entire research world. It was phenomenal. they have, well at least when I was there, they had some phenomenal people there. And it's always challenging to try and run a course by correspondence. it's, it'd be a nightmare.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (19:46.062)
absolutely, To be able to run that effectively and show that everyone feels supported, I think would be the hardest. My first degree that I did but didn't finish was actually through UNE. So I studied biomedical.
science by distance and it's really good having that flexibility but it can also be isolating as well and so I was very grateful of the the residential schools so I'm assuming you would have to you would have had to do the same for pharmacy go up there for like a week or something yeah and then be able
Nick (20:19.255)
Yeah.
Nick (20:23.02)
Yes, yeah.
Nick (20:27.309)
We were taking my young kids to some stage because my youngest, well, sorry, my eldest was born in 2016. So I had a residential school, I think four weeks after Magnus was born. And that was an interesting couple of weeks.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (20:43.752)
wow, yes, that would have been hectic. my gosh. This is the thing, like you're not just studying and like, you've got a family, you've got a life and yeah, just the everyday demands as well.
Nick (20:47.233)
Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (21:01.184)
It's funny, I sometimes think back to when I was studying straight out of school and how stressful it was. And don't get me wrong for those that are listening, but even that, it is stressful. But I definitely didn't take, yeah, I didn't appreciate that I did have.
a lot of support system with my parents and also like I didn't have to I didn't have to really work that much. I did work at the same time but it was like very different now. I didn't have the responsibilities that you have when you're older so sometimes I look back and think gosh wish I wish I could go back to those stressful days.
Nick (21:38.179)
Yeah, I hear you there.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (21:42.798)
But anyway, I these are things those listeners you have to look forward to but we wouldn't change it. Absolutely not. And so you've got a family, you've got how many kids do you have now? Two. Yep.
Nick (21:55.633)
They have a battering ram and a juggernaut, so there's going to be lot of repainting in the near future, I think.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (22:05.934)
Yeah, I imagine. And so you mentioned that one of them was, yeah, while you were studying, how was that? I guess that would have been quite challenging.
Nick (22:18.475)
It was, look, was after Magnus was born, I was already starting to struggle with a lot of stuff from transition, like a few key issues, particularly sleep, some mood stuff, lots of chronic pain issues.
It is, and then we were studying, obviously we want to ensure that we're doing the best. So was particularly hard on myself. At that also, at that time I was dealing with putting in claims to DVA, which is quite a stressful path, like quite a stressful journey. And like I, I mean, that's part of the reason why I put together the service that I did, because it is this part of this journey. I reflect back on it and think, what are the things that I wish that I'd known at the time that I know now?
And it's so much easier to bundle it and broadcast it to people. And I always like, I describe it as assisting others find their own yellow brick road because in the end, it's our self ownership of our own pathway that gets us to where we're going to go. And people aren't going to do things for you. So it's vital to have that self ownership. But during that time,
Krysti-Lee Patterson (23:08.109)
Mmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (23:26.605)
Mm.
Nick (23:32.234)
It was, yeah, it was challenging. It was quite an enduring period. I suspect that, I I've never had it confirmed, but mainly because the diagnostic thresholds for it are very challenging to try and diagnose, but I suspect there was some TBI, like some traumatic brain injury stuff because of blasts, explosion, even just gunfire running, you know, just exposure to overpressure concussion.
Because also during that time, if you asked me to remember specific things between say 2015 and 2020 or a bit after, I probably couldn't. My wife would show me videos of my son's first steps or key events and I honestly, I'd break down because I couldn't actually remember. And I've been through some therapies nowadays.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (24:14.35)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (24:25.838)
Mmm.
Nick (24:29.876)
I mean it's miraculous but most of that stuff's actually come back.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (24:36.898)
That's good. guess in some things, like I guess sometimes you might think, it probably does bring up some things that you don't want to remember either. Like maybe things that you're trying to suppress. But yeah, like that's actually good that you are actually able to remember the good things as well now, which is great.
Nick (24:57.975)
Yeah, and even with the suppression of events, there's not a solution. There's other pathways there as well to assist. There's other pathways that are available to basically assist with those as well. Like I also, when I have conversations with people about all of these things, like the...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (25:16.023)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (25:26.915)
The number of emergency servicemen and veterans that I've had discussions with in our clinic room or even outside of it, a lot of these happen in the clinic room and they happen close to close time, because I usually close Mondays and Fridays because I live so close to the shop.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (25:42.284)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (25:43.484)
And I've had like several occasions where I've had either the emergency servicemen or I've had veterans. And I've sent the other staff member home I've closed with because I have like big burly men bursting in tears just talking through all of these issues that are now coming out because the life stressors have basically caused the dam to overflow. And it's always a case of like discussing that
Krysti-Lee Patterson (26:03.982)
Mm.
Nick (26:13.547)
regardless of whether the individual invited the trauma or not, so to speak, regardless of what's happened to them, even though it's not their fault and they've been given it, it's still their responsibility to manage and to work through. Otherwise, your pathway to end of life becomes a very horrible pathway.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (26:29.422)
Mmm.
Nick (26:40.003)
When the things that we value, when we value family, when we value all of the things that make us happy, you don't get to see those fulfilled when you carry all of this. So self-acceptance.
and then understanding, it's not a case of a single therapy or a group of therapies can help me with this. It's a case of here's this way of options available to get you on your pathway. Where do you want to So, and that's the conversations I usually end up having.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (27:13.02)
Mm.
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Krysti-Lee Patterson (27:17.336)
Do you think as a pharmacist and as you've been speaking, I've been reflecting on experience in the pharmacy and people coming in and almost the idea of what I think a veteran is. And I think you, the general population and even like I've got experience with very close family members being veterans and they're not just the
the Vietnam vets will be older gentlemen that I like in there, anywhere from like 60s up to 90s. Like veterans like yourself serves in Afghanistan, Iraq, and a lot of the new wars now. I think, because they don't look like what you expect a veteran will look like, they probably are our customers and we probably don't realize. And one thing that I...
reflected on and I didn't actually really think of it much but my husband he has a DVA white card and so for those listening white card is one where you get the mental health treatment subsidized the gold one is where they get basically everything and for him he actually didn't use it for so many years so many years because he didn't
like want to feel that like he, I don't know, maybe he was broken or something or he didn't need it or something like that or yeah. And so I don't know if in your experience you've seen and I've also seen from his experiences now in the AFP. So you've gone military to AFP. AFP has its own issues as well. He's in counter-terrorism. So I don't know if that's anybody ever where he was. And
Nick (29:04.513)
Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (29:11.786)
I think there's also a bit of perception of, I guess, what we call civilians, so regular people that are not military or servicemen or women, that they do get a lot of support. And you can challenge me on this as well. But there's still a lot of fear even today for people to access the services because they're scared of the effect that's going to have on their work.
And so like I know I've even had these discussions with my husband and said, why don't you see the AFP psychologist, psychiatrist, physiotherapist, like they have all these, but he's like, no, I'll never like go to them. Like it's not confidential. And because I'm a health professional, I'm like, but it is confidential. But I don't know if you see that or if that's been something that you've experienced or seen people is, is, is I still
Nick (30:02.732)
Yeah.
Nick (30:08.675)
Oh yeah, It's a case of, think, like for me with my career, like I don't consider my career to be anything special. There are individuals, like there are individuals who I know and I look up to so highly. I mean, I'm not going to name them, but.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (30:12.056)
happening.
Nick (30:32.151)
There are individuals even within my cohort who I have such high respect for as humans and as military servicemen. And you kind of look at your own career and go, like mine is quite a short road in comparison. Did I do enough? Do you have internal guilt that you could have done more, could have done better or...
you have hindsight following you around kicking you in the butt all the time and you let it because it's just a rumination issue but on the flip side I think a lot of people I think there's two parts to it there's a they may feel the same I know a lot of veterans have when they have odd dreams or nightmares a lot of the dreams are based around letting people down and I've had those as well
Krysti-Lee Patterson (31:06.701)
Hmm.
Nick (31:26.819)
So it's a case of like there's that side of it, the guilt of not being the best team, you could have been, and also the other side of it being, I, I don't want to accept this because it means I'm broken or I have something wrong with me or I can't have jobs or, when in the reality of it, it's a case of...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (31:45.026)
Mmm.
Nick (31:53.112)
Why would you be so stubborn when you could have a better quality of life? And it's not just you who benefits, it's everybody you care about. And also, whatever profession you're in is gonna benefit from you being a better, more capable individual. And ensuring that you manage, like self-manage yourself is the pathway forward for that. There's plenty of stigma with it. I still, even with mental health, with men in mental health, with asking for help.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (32:07.086)
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (32:13.056)
Yeah, absolutely.
Nick (32:22.689)
with capability, pressures, 1950s style pressures where you are to be the sole provider. I can't even come close to making what my wife makes, me working as a pharmacist. It doesn't make me a pathetic person.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (32:39.15)
Yeah, absolutely, that's it. But yeah, there's still that. I know the conversation. So, yeah, my husband and I have had two and it's, yeah, it's funny you mentioned about like the people having the dreams and it's like based around letting people down. And so that was very insightful for them of what you just said. And so as...
Nick (33:01.346)
Perfect.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (33:05.684)
As a pharmacist, you have launched a number of services in your pharmacy to support veterans. I'd love to understand a little bit more about what that actually is and how does one go about participating in these services that you've created.
Nick (33:28.003)
The primary one I do is, and it's finally got its own booking linked up through the ProPatria sound, which is down in Wagga, which is a veteran sound, which conducts research and is actually pushing for a lot of veteran-led activities in that space. So this service literally started as me handwriting notes on
the greatest note pad on the planet, is T-R-OS from a script.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (33:58.462)
I love it. Love it. This is just like pharmacy life.
Nick (34:02.891)
Yeah, it's the thing is in like five minute conversations, actually, that's incorrect because our manager Penny will say that they were longer than five minutes. She actually told me to she said that we hope that she hopes your podcast is very long because I have a habit of tangent talking and talking for a time.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (34:21.902)
That's okay. I like tangents. actually makes the podcast very interesting. Like I said, I've got questions, but for those that are listening, we don't actually go with Q &A's and so tangents are usually where we find the best engagement.
Nick (34:28.418)
Nick (34:41.667)
I'll hopefully complete my PhD in that soon. We literally started as conversations as quick snapshots into people's lives asking.
particular questions, which again, Penny said I'm very good at asking the right slash wrong questions. Hence why I have clinic room conversations with closed doors, which is not a bad thing. I value people opening up to me like that and the fact that they can trust me to talk about what is going on. And it's a case of, I would provide people with, this is a list of discussion points I suggest you go and talk to your doctor and have a talk about.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (35:07.714)
Mm.
Nick (35:22.019)
It's like, I'm not going to tell you to cease your therapy, even with this medication or a few things that I do now, I don't tell people to cease therapy, I provide them with discussion points to say, these are the things that are important to you. These are the options available. These are the referral pathways that you'll require to discuss with your doctor in order to access those pathways. And this is the way to broadcast it to your practitioner. The reasoning behind this is because when you...
when you get out of the uniform you still do what you're told. You still look at it a health practitioner as an authority figure. So if your doctor says start this drug, even though it's gonna probably throw you out with significant side effects or it might not be in your best interest, and I'm not saying practitioners don't have their patients in their best interest, it's just there are specific pathways that are provided for certain conditions. It's a case of giving people
Krysti-Lee Patterson (35:59.597)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (36:19.991)
the knowledge and I look at it as the permission to question what's going on and ensure that it is the best thing for them and for their lives. And for me, like when I presented at the site conference in 2023, like there was myself, an Air Force veteran and an ex-commando veteran who I'm still, who actually works at ProPatria, Jase, we all spoke from different perspectives.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (36:25.006)
Mmm.
Nick (36:48.109)
we were all asked to provide a 20 minute package each to talk. So we obviously went through our journeys as we've done today. Talked about our injuries. I mean, I can give you a laundry list of injuries that myself and everyone else usually carries.
And then we each put a slide up that had like the medications we'd trial for our health conditions. And like for me, I think there was like 35 or 40 on mine and Jase had a ton on his and Michael had a ton on his. It's a case of this is just, a lot of us have just things thrown at us. Try this, try this, try this.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (37:16.663)
Wow.
Nick (37:28.707)
When in reality, it is a case of it's not just a, like there are, it's not just a pharmaceutical solution. It is a, hey, let's get your pain, like let's get your sleep under control because we can look at our sleep as our, we can make a triangle of sleep, know, depression, sleep and pain. If we can reduce one of those, we can reduce the size of the triangle, so to speak. And sleep, I mean, I say sleep is the easiest to target. It's still incredibly challenging. It's probably still the easiest of the three to target.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (37:38.796)
Mmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (37:55.491)
Mm.
Nick (37:57.636)
but it's not just drugs that are gonna get you sleep. What else is going on? What other modalities do we have available that we can get people to reduce their pain, increase their mobility, increase their feeling of their capability, sorry, their cable. And that's like...
Sorry, just to come back from the edge of that tangent, that's basically like the intent behind that was to get people to understand or just have a discussion and say, it's not the best option to do this when you can also do these other things to add it in.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (38:31.182)
Mm.
Nick (38:34.019)
Like I spoke about Skrivato, I'm happy to talk about it. Like I've used Esketimane for a couple of years. It has been, for me personally, it's been somewhat of a silver bullet. Memory issues that I have have dissipated. I have a lot of reduced pain. I can actually sleep. I can sleep without sleeping on the floor because of my pain. Like a lot of the time I would sleep on the floor. And also because my kids were just waking me up. So it's just easier to sleep on the floor in their room.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (38:44.02)
Mm-hmm. wow.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (38:57.838)
You
you
Nick (39:02.461)
And from that psych conference, the stove piping within a lot of therapeutic or lot of practitioner structures has been, and particularly with the psychologists that we spoke to, is this is the stuff that worked for us. Out of the three of us, we'd all tried cannabis, and cannabis is an effective tool.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (39:22.702)
Mm.
Nick (39:23.043)
But cannabis is also part of the reason why I put the medications review together because you can't like to go and smoke 10 grams of flour a week and think that's acceptable and your family doesn't even know who you are anymore then we need to have a chat about it I think. So.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (39:34.068)
Mm. Mm.
Nick (39:38.948)
And obviously with our vacuum, with the cannabis industry and certain unscrupulous individuals taking advantage of that, it's something that needs to be managed just to assist people to assist themselves. But once we presented, we ended up talking, I think, for four hours in total because we were supposed to just go 20 minutes slow each and we had a massive back and forth, like just constructive conversation.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (39:47.694)
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (39:56.228)
well.
Nick (40:04.705)
just about what modalities work, what don't work. I've used EMDR therapy and I think it's fantastic. It's actually probably one of the most exhausting things I've ever experienced. Like I've attended EMDR therapy and like had to pull over on the drive home because of how challenging it can be. But it is ridiculously effective when it's placed in the right place.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (40:14.004)
Yeah, well, okay.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (40:27.502)
you
Nick (40:29.635)
Yeah, so my personal experiences with this, my conversations with other veterans, my conversations with practitioners is how we've gone in the pathway of setting up the medication for users. And that's why I described, I had to title it something. I actually chatted with, I ended up chatting with, like this all sort of happened post-masterclass last year with the nomination stuff, which gave me a bit of a confidence boot to actually do the things that I value.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (40:58.838)
Yeah, brilliant. For those that are listening, this is the Terry White Chemmart Masterclass. Is that correct? Yep.
Nick (41:03.674)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's where I was, like with the nomination, I didn't even know why I got nominated. I still don't. I'm assuming it's because I've come in on my days off and built so many shelves and changed so many lights in the shop. So after that, I discussed this, like I discussed it with...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (41:18.284)
Yeah.
Nick (41:29.027)
several individuals. I've bounced all the off like Terry White's chief pharmacist, Brenton, like he gave me a lot of good insight into what the ways to look at it. I have several back and forth conversations with PDL about how to structure it because I'm not HMR qualified but what I do doesn't... But what I do is HMR related.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (41:44.809)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (41:49.518)
okay that I should have actually asked that question I just assumed that you would have to be yes right.
Nick (41:57.692)
And it's a case of like, yes, this is what these are your conditions. This is what you've, this is what your experience has been, these are the medications you take. I'm not trying to recommend a change or anything. I'm trying to get people just to get like to portray to their practitioner that what is happening now is not, it's not working as good as it could be.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (42:20.536)
So it's essentially empowering the patient to take more control of their own therapies.
Nick (42:26.295)
Yeah, I don't like the word empower. I think it's overused, but I think they're able to confidence to start the force on their own path. mean, do you want me to go through the overview of the medication report?
Krysti-Lee Patterson (42:31.138)
Yeah. Hmm. Confidence. Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (42:41.952)
Yeah, that would be great. think, yeah, because for those that are listening, I guess that may be interested in either doing something like this or even maybe they've got a different topic that is relevant to maybe their experiences or the demographics of their pharmacy. And like the fact that you mentioned it started out from just writing on bits of paper on the script. And I think sometimes in pharmacy,
Nick (43:03.895)
Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (43:07.438)
a lot of us think it's too hard to create a service because they might see someone winning a award or they see like these really well established things. for example, even like the men's health down under that red butt started like we're seeing it 15 years down the track. We're not seeing what it was like in the very beginning. yeah, if you could quickly describe what's actually involved, that'd be great.
Nick (43:22.05)
Yay.
Nick (43:29.666)
So.
like exactly on the point you've just made. Like when I started putting this together and when I was, I basically went with the thought that provided that it's not maliciously aligned and that this is what I actually really, really value about pharmacies. If framework doesn't exist for something, you can go and create your own framework basically until someone either.
slaps you on the wrist and tells you to change it or until it changes hands because it's become too big. So that's exactly what I ended up doing with like PDL. When you go through and ask why referrals are required for things like HMRs and it's only funding related. So I just don't charge a fee for it. just do this off my own back.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (44:00.547)
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (44:13.198)
Mmm.
Nick (44:17.219)
But the way that it works is I have a website for it now, but beforehand it was just word of mouth. People would take a business card and they would call me and we would book in for some time to chat. And we go through an entire picture of the individual's life. So we talk about their service history, their service-related conditions that they've endured, any conditions, because plenty of people enter with conditions pre and develop things after.
So we go through everything and just lay it out and say, is what is happening in this individual's life. We discuss whether they've had any genetic testing for enzyme up regulation, down regulation for drug metabolism. the one.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (45:06.407)
interesting.
Nick (45:07.339)
So the one that I see veterans most easily get access to and have DVA fund is the Sonic one. So they have that, like that's just something to add on. We go through what the home life, work life, everything looks like.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (45:19.82)
Mmm.
Nick (45:27.491)
We then go through and talk about specific conditions, the conditions that are most concerning to them when we go through the medication management, previous medication history, how everything has been going. So, and what their wants are out of this, what are their, you know, what is their future wants, what are they, where do they want to end up? Do they want to increase?
Krysti-Lee Patterson (45:47.725)
Mm.
Nick (45:57.284)
their physical capability, do they want to change their weight, do they want to be right like a lot of guys, a lot of people I talk to it's like I want to still be able to run around and carry my kids and I'm like they described as being broken. And what I've been doing is I literally just take all of this and I put it into, I put it into the key discussion points. I don't send this to their practitioner, I only send it to the veteran and it's written in the way that we've talked.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (46:07.233)
Yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (46:27.031)
Yep.
Nick (46:27.811)
Because if I was a GP or practitioner or someone's sending me medication review reports out of nowhere, I'd probably be a little bit grumpy that someone's trying to tell me how to do my job. So it's literally that they can take it with them and they can sit down and say, I've sat down with Nick, Nick's a veteran, Nick has a bit of pharmacy experience and health condition experience. These are some points that he suggested we talk about today.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (46:38.763)
Yes.
Nick (46:56.675)
And it's like, yes, I should be going to physio or he suggested discussing EMDR therapy, his EMDR practitioners. mean, I have a bit of a laugh in me. They're probably still doing it. Like in my notebook, I have like a ton of practitioners names because every single time someone comes back and says, I've got...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (46:57.262)
Mm.
Nick (47:19.171)
I received this search from this person or I went and saw this neurosurgeon. mean, half of these people I saw myself when you need to go and get second opinions on getting discs replacing your neck. You need to, like you start keeping track of who's worthwhile going and seeing and then you start directing other people towards those. So that just forms the basic. And I'm happy to plus or minus it. If people have more to add to it, feel free to. Because there's never enough support. But to get people to understand that
Krysti-Lee Patterson (47:36.11)
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (47:43.542)
Hmm.
Nick (47:48.74)
to get a bit of understanding, it's like, okay, I want to see a physio for this and I'm sick and tired of my depression and my mood, et cetera. And I want to discuss eschatomy and I want to, where is the MDMA pathway at? Like what's happening with psilocybin? What's going on with cannabis? Who should I actually be talking to about pain management with cannabis or sleep?
Krysti-Lee Patterson (48:08.024)
Yep.
Nick (48:15.169)
And then there's even intricacies with that too, because there are some effective non-psychoactive components within the cannabis plant that DVA won't subsidise because it's not TOC or CQD. So these are sort of the next conversations to have. And this way...
Krysti-Lee Patterson (48:31.726)
It's those things that find me so it's so frustrating that it's always linked to funding pathways or things like that and where there could be really great therapies out there. But it's just, yeah, anyway, I won't go down that tangent. I'll let you go. Carry on.
Nick (48:51.095)
No, well they're not talking anymore. So yeah, that's basically it. We have a follow up at the veteran's discretion. Half the time when I do these, I don't write a report. We just have a chat and some people just go, okay, that's all I've gotta do. yeah, no worries at all. And sometimes people just don't wanna do anything because sometimes that's just how people are and that's okay as well. But.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (49:02.52)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (49:18.846)
Yeah, that's so true. And sometimes it can take a lot of time for them, right, to or to hear something. But I think even just sometimes, even if people don't want to do something, but deep down, like the fact that someone actually gave a shit, I guess, and gave them some time, I think that like that does stay with them.
Nick (49:20.739)
Want me to drive by?
Nick (49:37.079)
Yeah.
Nick (49:42.456)
Yeah, it's like, and I always run with the adage that it's probably getting old using this now, but all of us, don't want to, like, we don't want a hand getting up. But my intent with this is, my intent with this is always to, it's always to help people, I say it's to help people to get from the ground to a knee so they can stand up on themselves under their own power and we will support them on that journey.
And if it's not me supporting them, I will find them somebody to support them. Because there are enough pathways available to help people improve their quality of life. So it is, I mean, it can be incredibly frustrating. I mean, I have several stories about that, it's a case of like, these are the things that I wish I had when I started to get up and well and I started to endure a lot of issues.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (50:10.061)
Mm.
Nick (50:38.975)
So, and on this, I'm honestly like, it's not the same with everybody else. And a lot of people don't have, a lot of veterans don't have the support network that I have. Like I, my wife is the most phenomenal human. And she has done nothing but support me this entire journey and kicked my butt when needed to be kicked. And she's, you know, we've had quite the story together so far. I'm also very fortunate. not a whole heap stresses me.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (50:59.918)
Mm.
Nick (51:08.869)
life anymore because I get to you know my sons and my wife and my best friends and I get to be part of the best team I've ever been a part of and these are the things that I truly value so it's not how many scripts I did today at work or whatever other superficial issue or component people use to assess how good they're doing it's the it's the case of like have I supported those who are going to be standing by my deathbed
Krysti-Lee Patterson (51:19.118)
Mm.
Nick (51:37.023)
as best as I can and I'm like, my two sons better equipped to leave home than I was when I left home? So that's why.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (51:45.718)
that's really, that's a really, yeah, nice way to think of actually. Yeah. Are they going to be, yeah, better equipped?
Krysti-Lee Patterson (51:58.336)
So Nick, we have spoken for a little while now and I feel like there's bits and pieces that I actually would love to have you back on and maybe we can delve into more detail into different aspects. But for those that are listening, we'll put in the show notes, some links to the website and information to what Nick's doing. So if you're interested in...
maybe learning a little bit more about the services that he is providing in his community, you can do that. But Nick, I'll just give you the opportunity now, is there anything that you'd like to share with the listeners that maybe we haven't touched on yet that you want to kind of leave as a final message?
Nick (52:43.715)
I did want to say just regarding the medication service, there is a resilience tracking app that we are now signing people up to.
My long-term intent for this service is to be able to have DBA funded so other finances can conduct it because people don't work for free. And obviously the best way to facilitate something is to provide robust evidence. So the tracking app displays, it'll identify what services or what therapeutic pathways a veteran is using.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (52:56.717)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (53:05.836)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Nick (53:25.187)
and it's able to delineate which are the most useful. So it will provide us with data to show just how effective this is. And then from there, I can write up a proof of concept paper and we'll see. I mean, this is long term. It's going to take me a little while to collect this data. But long term, I intend on writing that proof of concept paper so that we do have a service established. Because I think it's something, if you can capture vulnerable veterans during their hardest times, we can
Krysti-Lee Patterson (53:25.238)
Mm-hmm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (53:41.102)
Mm.
Nick (53:54.934)
can short circuit the, I'll describe it as, when people get to the point where they convince themselves that their family would be better off without them, which is a very nasty way to say it, excuse me, but it's the reality of it. If we can capture people before them, we can ensure that people are on the right pathway forward to live full, happy lives that they deserve. So, yeah.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (54:04.823)
Mmm.
Mm.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (54:19.182)
Absolutely. Well, we'll add the link to this tracking app as well in the show notes so that those that are interested, can download it, check it out, reach out. But I definitely think.
you're onto something and yeah, it's going to take some time to get this evidence base up, but I think it's definitely worthwhile work you're doing. So Nick, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. It's been really, really insightful and got lots of reflections and learnings about this. And I guess even just my take home message is even you don't have to...
Nick (54:48.736)
I said it.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (55:05.986)
Think about creating a huge service or something like just taking an extra five minutes and just having that chat to your patients and your customers. You don't know where that can lead to. So that's probably my take home message from our chat today. So thanks, Nick.
Nick (55:22.204)
Thank you for this. appreciate it.
Krysti-Lee Patterson (55:24.576)
No problem. Thank you so much.
Nick (55:26.615)
Thanks.
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Final Thoughts
Nick’s story is a powerful reminder that community pharmacists aren’t just healthcare providers — we’re gatekeepers of trust, belonging, and hope. Whether it’s a two-minute chat over the counter or a structured veteran medication review, the role we play can literally change lives. And as Nick says, sometimes all someone needs is a moment of real connection to start their healing journey.
At Raven’s Recruitment, we understand that pharmacists like Nick are rare — but we also know that many of you share that same drive to serve, lead, and care. If you're ready to find a pharmacy job that reflects your values and purpose, we're here to help.
Are you ready to be the pharmacist your community needs, even when you don’t wear a uniform?
