Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly brought to you by Raven's Recruitment, Australia's leading specialist pharmacy recruitment agency. The podcast series is being created to shine a light on the diverse and inspiring careers of Australia's pharmacists. Each episode will focus on the varied career opportunities within the pharmacy industry by exploring the career paths taken by leaders in the fields of Community Pharmacy, Hospital, Industry, Government and Professional Organizations. Careers never follow a defined path. Everyone's story is different and unique in their own way. The podcast series will help you discover the world of opportunities that exist and reveal pathways to achieve your dreams and aspirations. Whether you are a pharmacy student, early career pharmacist, or simply looking for a change at any stage of your career, the podcast series is designed to help you navigate ways into a career and a life that you love. Your host of the podcast series is Allie Xu. Allie, herself a pharmacist, is now the founder of Global Pharmacy Entrepreneurs and a passionate advocate for pharmacists to grow, innovate, excel, and make a lasting impact in the world. It's now over to our host, Allie Xu.
[Allie Xu] Hi, Elise, how are you today?
[Elise Apolloni] Good, Allie, how are you?
[Allie Xu] Good. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the show, we're so excited to learn about your pharmacy journey. We know that you have wealth of experience, and you're the representative of pharmacists in Australia. So we can't wait to hear your advice and for our pharmacy students and intern pharmacists to learn about how to create a successful pharmacy career, and stay positive.
[Elise Apolloni] Happy to help.
[Allie Xu] Thank you. So tell us about your story. Where did you grow up?
[Elise Apolloni] I grew up here in Canberra, so I was born here and I was here for all of my schooling. And then in, I think, year 10, I had a serendipitous moment in my career where I had to go on work experience. I really wanted to go to the local video shop, because I wanted to get sort of an after-school job there on my days off, but unfortunately, for whatever reason, the gods had different things in mind for me and I was lucky enough to get a position at my local pharmacy to do work experience. And really, the rest is history. So that sort of, you know, sliding doors moment. Video stores aren't too popular these days, but pharmacies, I feel, are just getting started. So it was a good sort of switch and just a serendipitous moment where my careers advisor said, “No, you should do something in health.” So yeah, and here we are.
[Allie Xu] Nice. So you did your pharmacy school in Canberra, and after that —
[Elise Apolloni] Oh, not, actually, so the Canberra Pharmacy school wasn't around when I finished year 12, so — or it had just started and it was a master's program, so that didn't suit what I wanted to do. So I actually then moved to Wagga Wagga for four years and studied at Charles Sturt. And then I came back to Canberra to do my intern year, and I have been here ever since and had my lovely husband, follow me over here, too. So that's where we are now.
[Allie Xu] So when did you start your pharmacy ownership?
[Elise Apolloni] I became an owner in 2013, after a couple of years of sort of pipeline planning to get there in terms of having, you know, a bit of an idea of, you know, where I wanted to be working and who I would be in business with. And so, yeah, it took it about two years. It was meant to only take a year, but as with these things, you know, surprising situations happen and things change and situations, you know, all get flipped around. And so, yeah, in, I think it was July of 2013, I became a partner in two pharmacies. And then in 2018, I joined another two partnerships as well.
[Allie Xu] Where did you get these opportunities? Was it offered to you, or — How did you get those opportunities?
[Elise Apolloni] Yes, sometimes it is right place, right time. I have worked for a pharmacy group my whole life that definitely allows young people the opportunity to own pharmacies, particularly when they probably aren't in a financial position necessarily to be able to afford them. We have sort of an internal funding mechanism which makes that happen. So I went to uni. And prior to going to uni and the pharmacy I was working at the Capital Chemist. I really loved the family vibe and the feel about the pharmacy. And so I had thought to myself, you know, I always would — I would like to create this environment for other people in the future to work in. And so when I was at uni, you know, when I go back and like read yearbooks and things like that, I had always said that I wanted to be a pharmacy owner. I just loved the opportunity to create that environment for my community and my team. And so that's sort of always sat with me. And then in my intern year, I remember having a chat to now one of my partners about my interest in pharmacy ownership and she was very supportive and understanding and also understood my Gen Y gene and the fact that this wasn't something I felt I could wait for for years and years. I was really keen now. And so I wanted to make a difference now. And she arranged for me to meet with some of the more sort of senior people in Capital Chemist and and sort of get some ideas about where I might take my career and the rest is history. So then you know, serendipitous maternity leave break for her meant a management opportunity for me. And then from there, I became partner there, so that was very lucky. Yeah, but I suppose the things that sort of helped — I was really keen to try anything. I used to beg to be able to do the staff roster. Which on reflection, you know, I hate rosters now. But, you know, everything. I just wanted to try everything. I wanted to give everything a go once and I didn't love everything that I would take over or try and improve or try and work with but I certainly just wanted to have a go at least once and everything. And I was enthusiastic and happy to study on the side, happy to stay back and, you know, do what I had to do to make sure the pharmacy was where it needed to be. And then ultimately that led into ownership.
[Allie Xu] Wow, that's great advice there. So, always willing to try anything.
[Elise Apolloni] [Laughing] Yes. Within reason, but yes, yeah.
[Allie Xu] So we know that you're also a pharmacy practitioner board member.
[Elise Apolloni] Yes.
[Allie Xu] So what's your role and how did you become a board member?
[Elise Apolloni] So the pharmacy board regulates pharmacists in Australia and in partnership with AHPRA and the role of that sort of entity ultimately is to protect the public. So I'm a passionate pharmacist and I love being a pharmacist, but I'm also very passionate about making sure that the patient or, you know, the end receiver of our care has a good experience. And if, for whatever reason, there isn't a good experience, that we make it better for them next time, or we make sure that, you know, next time or, you know, future interactions are more positive. So I had a mentor — “have,” present tense, still very much respect this particular pharmacist. I had a mentor approach me and say, “You know, you should really give this a crack.” And I was very skeptical, and I wasn't very sure, but I thought, you know, it never hurts to put in an application, the worst thing that can happen is they say, “No, you are not eligible or suitable,” or whatever it may be. And so I put in an application, which actually is then reviewed by the government, so health ministers and things. And I was successful. So I got the ACT practitioner member position. So the board is made up of pharmacists and community members from all different backgrounds. And I am a pharmacy owner and also a preceptor to pharmacists, so — and the younger pharmacist, so, you know. I think we all have different qualities that we bring and I suppose that sort of grassroots practice is one of the perspectives that I bring to the board.
[Allie Xu] Oh wow. So speaking about mentors and role models in your life, what are some of the lessons you learned from those people who shaped your career development?
[Elise Apolloni] Mentors come in all different shapes and sizes, and times, and moments. And sometimes it's just, you know, the person that you can always talk to, or you know, vent to, or share ideas with, or say what you really think, too. Sometimes mentors are people who you actually don't want to be like. So, some of the mentors I've had in my career, you know, I've observed and I've learned things that I think to myself, “Well, that obviously works for them. But, you know, the lesson I'm learning from having this person in my life is that, you know, I need to try and not be like that.” Which isn't a negative criticism of them, it's just more than it helps refine the kind of pharmacist and practitioner that I want to be. Some mentors that I've had in my life have come at moments when things were tougher, or when I needed to hear some hard truths about where, you know, my career was going or, you know, how our business was performing, or whatever the tricky situation was at the time. But ultimately, I think they’re people that you trust, that you can have full and frank conversations with, that are generous and happy to share their wisdom and not manipulate or do anything untoward with the information that you're sharing — that ultimately are working towards a good outcome for you, and you know, you and your career. And I think equally some of the mentoring relationships that I have, you know, they're not always people that have been pharmacists for longer than me. You know, equally, interns and pharmacists that I work with are equally as inspiring. And you know, I think there's something to be learned from everybody. Students, pharmacists, interns, people who are very esteemed in their careers, you know, everyone's got something to offer.
[Allie Xu] So one of the questions from our students, how do you approach people? I had students said they’re cold emailing and cold calling mentors they want to meet and they want to learn from but not getting the return, or a calls or emails. And they just want to know how. How do you reach out, what did you do?
[Elise Apolloni] So there's been a variety of ways. Obviously, right now, it's really tricky being COVID, because conferences have always been a really easy networking opportunity for me. So I would go to a conference, I would have, you know, drinks or whatever, whatever event there was, and you, you know, strike up a conversation with a very incredible pharmacist that you think, “Oh, my goodness, I'm adding them to my list.” And then it's not always a formal relationship. I think sometimes people feel like there's this official email that says, “I am your mentor, and you are my mentee,” or whatever it may look like. But that's not often, in my experience, what actually happens. It's often like an informal sort of, you know, bouncing of ideas. I'm sure there are formalized arrangements too, and I have had those in the past as well. But it's just, a lot of the stuff is just ad hoc, you know, sort of checking in with people and just having that network of people that if you've got a question, you know you can reach out to that particular person with that skill set to sort of help improve, you know, your practice. I, over the years, receive emails and, you know, Facebook messages and things from pharmacists, and students, and interns, and I'm always more than happy to kind of respond. But, you know, as to whether it's a formal kind of, “Will you be my mentor,” that's not necessarily how the conversations go. I think it's good to be clear that what you want. I am on LinkedIn, and sometimes I'll get a message from time to time that will say something like, you know, a very general question will say, “Hi Elise, what are your thoughts about pharmacy in Australia?” You know, just a really broad question. And I've got so many questions in return, I'm like, “Who are you? Am I the right person to chat to you?” You know, it's good to kind of say where you're coming from so that when and if, you know, your person that you're trying to, you know, connect with is replying, they sort of know the realm with which they're trying to assist. Because there is a lot of messaging and communication, particularly on LinkedIn, which isn't necessarily genuine. So you know, and it is just for a sale, or whatever. So it can be hard to sift through the genuine requests versus, you know, the people who just have an automated message that, you know, sends every time they make a new connection. So, yeah, I suppose, yeah — making your position clear, explaining what you're looking for or what you would like to know, and, you know, not being afraid to ask. I mean, the worst thing that can happen is they don't reply or they say no. But if you never ask in the first place, I don't think anyone's going to tap you on the shoulder and say, “Oh, may I be your mentor?” necessarily. [Laughing] So you sort of just have to put yourself out there. You know, I'm sure it's like dating. You know, you're going to take some chances to strike gold. [Laughing]
[Allie Xu] Yeah, great. [Laughing] Yes, exactly. Think of it as dating, where you have to give a few tries.
[Elise Apolloni] Career dating.
[Allie Xu] [Laughing] Yeah.
[Elise Apolloni] [Laughing] Yeah. You win some, you lose some.
[Allie Xu] Okay, so as a mentor, you've mentioned that you helped a lot of students answer their questions. What are some of the qualities and skills pharmacy students can develop during that university time to prepare for that successful pharmacy ownership?
[Elise Apolloni] Yeah, I think there's a number of things that you can do in your student time. I think students often perceive that that time is, you know, almost like they're stuck in the mud. They can't do much, you know, you've just got to pass before all the magic happens. But the reality is, from the day that you set foot in a university, you have choices that you can make that will determine, you know, the ease with which you move into different parts of your career. For example, there's always opportunities to get more involved in, you know, many parts of the university, not least your pharmacy school club. You know, you can get started in that sort of networking process of, you know, being part of NAPSA. NAPSA has connections with most of the peak bodies in pharmacy. There's, you know, opportunities for students to give feedback and to be across the issues that impact their profession. Then you've got wider things. So for example, at uni, there was a rural health club. So that was actually a collaborative of many different professions and disciplines, not just pharmacy. And so I could liaise with, you know, other people — radiographers, nuclear med students, nurses — trying to sort of, you know, formulate those cross professional partnerships. And then there's other groups altogether at University, you know, that might have political persuasions or, you know, viewpoints that they, you know, want to share or you know, present to others. So, I think, even at a student level, you have an opportunity to step up and to take on different tasks that ultimately give you a step up in the profession, I think. I personally got involved with NAPSA when I was at uni, and I found it very, very helpful. And just the connections and the realization that while the pharmacy world looks really big when you're a student, the reality is, pharmacy is a very small profession, and it's really easy to network around and get to know people. And honestly, I can't actually think of ever being at a conference in my career, and going up to somebody or talking to somebody and thinking, “They really didn't want to talk to me, and they hated me,” or, you know, “I was not worthy to talk to them.” I've never felt that way. I think everyone's really friendly and approachable. Because that's the nature of a pharmacist — we are community minded and we work with people for a living. So it's a nice kind of human, [laughing] generally speaking that you can talk to. I think, as well, when you're at uni, there are some things that you can't necessarily gain from your studies in any large proportion. So, mainly business skills. I think it's something that does lack from a lot of pharmacy courses that I have an awareness of, in that, you know, not everyone wants to take that pathway, but certainly you're at uni and you can learn the clinical stuff. And if the clinical stuff is really well embedded, then when you leave uni, you are hopefully a really competent pharmacist. And so then you'll feel more confident to take on new study or sort of new, I suppose, specialization if you hope to have a career in pharmacy ownership. But certainly, yeah. I mean, a uni can't teach you absolutely everything you're going to ever have to know [laughing]. And nor can an internship for that matter, but it's just a matter of, you know, making people aware of where they can improve themselves over time, yeah.
[Allie Xu] Yeah, that sort of leads to my next questions about learning and continued professional development in general. As a preceptor or as a pharmacy owner, what’s your advice about, you know, on-job training, versus external training,
[Elise Apolloni] So, I am really passionate about people working on-the-job to learn things. I think it's awesome to have the theoretical knowledge of your degree, your qualification, but there's nothing quite the same as being on the ground and experiencing that firsthand. So I think it's really important. In terms of CPD, I think everyone's different in how they upskill annually. You know, we obviously have annual requirements to maintain our registration. And I suppose, with time, your requirements change. So some years, you know, particularly earlier in your career, you know, I find, I was doing a lot of clinical type work, you know, I was reading a lot of articles, journal articles, I was, you know, then answering the multi choice questions associated with that, going to conferences, but then over time, it sort of evolved for me. You know, I'm still very interested in that side of pharmacy, but, you know, I might do a training about leadership or about mentoring or about emotional intelligence, or sort of things that, you know, aren't necessarily about, you know, a medication, for example, but sort of helped expand my scope, or expand my ability to perform my role/ And yeah, and that's not always how you think, you know. It's not always reading, you know, a pharmacist-specific magazine, or it's not always attending a pharmacy conference. You know, there's lots of related experiences that formulate what can contribute, I've done volunteer work that's counted in terms of, you know, bettering my communication skills. I've done all sorts of weird and wonderful things over the years. I've trained others and counted that as sort of training points, I suppose, or group three points. But yeah, there's a massive, yeah, array of options.
[Allie Xu] Yeah.
[Elise Apolloni] And the point is that, with time I think we get to be better at identifying what we don't know. You know, when we're working and you think, “Oh, gosh,” you know, “That's new,” or, you know, “I really need to brush up on that” and sort of take a note down of, “Okay, I need to go look into that.” and put some time aside. Sometimes it's hard to know what you don't know until you sort of have been thrown in the deep end. Yeah.
[Allie Xu] Yeah. So in community pharmacy what are some opportunities? I know that you have the Mental Health First Aid course. You’re also a diabetes care educator.
[Elise Apolloni] Yep.
[Allie Xu] So what are some of the opportunities for growth in this area in community pharmacy?
[Elise Apolloni] I think that community pharmacy is in a great position to keep helping our communities at a grassroots level, I actually get a little bit emotional, actually, when I think about it, in the last few months, particularly. We've had patients that have not necessarily been able to experience their normal health care in the last few months, for many, you know, understandable reasons. We're in a pandemic. People can't move the way they want to move around their community necessarily. People can't live their life like normal. But their pharmacy has always been there, you know, it's not changed. Maybe you can't sit on as many chairs, maybe it's not suggested that you touch as many things, or maybe there's sort of a suggestion that you might sit outside and wait as opposed to inside if you know, there's lots of people around and social distancing. But the point is, that has not faulted. And I'm really proud to be part of that network of pharmacies providing that care. The opportunities for us in the future are to continue to help people. I think when you have that at the front of everything that you do, the front of your mind, there's only good that can come from helping people to the best of your ability. How can I help people to the best of my ability? Well, I'm sure there's health services and health connections that we can make in a community pharmacy ongoing that will help patients in the measurable fashion. Whether it be, yes, from helping them into health from having pharmacists with specialties like diabetes education, or sleep apnea, or asthma management or, you know, immunization, or whatever it may be. The point is, you know, I think the more that we are open to being flexible for our community and meet their needs, the more that opportunities will continue to present themselves. And that's certainly been my experience. You know, you find a problem where you see a gap, and you work out a way that you as a pharmacy can help in that space. And then you offer something that may help people who are falling through cracks. And then ultimately you've innovated and then you've helped the community in a better way, in a unique way, and hopefully in a rewarding one as well.
[Allie Xu] Mmm. When you’re speaking about this pandemic, and this unprecedented time, how do you stay positive when, you know, we have all these negativity and negative emotions that surround us? What are your tips? And how did you go through that period?
[Elise Apolloni] Pandemics are hard. [Laughing] I'm glad this as a country, we haven't had to deal with an enormous amount of these. And obviously, there's parts of the world that have had it a lot harder than us in the last few decades in terms of what they've had to deal with. I am so grateful to be in Australia, right now. My husband has Italian heritage and, you know, again, while there's many countries in the world having a tough time, we do talk to his family over there and it's really hard in other places, as well. So perspective is good, you know. Having a comparison, you know. Having someone that you can talk to, to understand that while your circumstances may be hard, you know, there's always something harder happening somewhere else in the world. Or, you know, even in our own country, for that matter. I think in terms of how I have coped through the pandemic, I haven't always had an easy time [laughing]. It has been stressful when we've had split teams. My husband is also a pharmacist. So there was a point where we literally had like a couple of hours on the Saturday night, in a week, that we as the family was simultaneously awake and in the house together. And that went on for several months. And that was just because of the protective mechanisms our workplaces had put in place so we could A. both still performing our duties as pharmacists, but B. also, you know, help the community and keep our families as safe as possible from spreading infection. So that was tricky. But also, you know, there's — people are more stressed, obviously. And so that sometimes reflects in the experiences that people have on shift, whether it be that, you know, people unknowingly or knowingly, are more short with them or not as friendly or not as appreciative of the help that they're trying to — or the care that they're trying to deliver. Whether it be that they’re strained relationships between health professionals, because of, you know, just the busyness or the workload that everyone's experiencing. And then there's, of course, the news and the media and all the information that's being thrown at us often, 24/7, if we're awake that much of the day, hopefully not. But sometimes you are [laughing]. So I think my personal strategies are: I don't watch the news, I stay abreast the updates just from a government website, so I'll check in with that. That's relevant to my area or my staff, so if I've had someone that's travelled into state, I obviously will just, you know, for a couple of weeks, check that corresponding information. Our head office with our pharmacy group is also really good at sort of, you know, packaging up the information that's essential, and delivering that out so that we can keep the noise to a minimum in terms of extra stuff going on. I also make sure that there's enough me time or family time. So I know there's a correlation between the amount of time that I have not being a pharmacist as a function of my general performance at work and my happiness. And I didn't realize how much that was important until I actually did have six days off the other week with my husband and my little girl. And when I was on those six days, I thought to myself, “Gosh, I needed this.” You can't really go very far or do anything, but it was just the fact that there was no other competing work or, you know, meeting commitments at the time. So I think, yeah, recognizing when you need a break, and if not, just giving yourself a break and then seeing what it feels like. And if you feel like there's a big difference in mood and your stress levels and things, then that's probably a really good sign that a bit more self care’s needed. And finding that thing that just recharges you quite quickly or, you know, kind of brings you back down to earth I think for me it's gardening then springs awesome for that. So you know, we're planting lots of veggies and watering and, you know, flat planting flowers and everything. So, you know, times are getting tough, it's a quick trip to the local nursery, 10 or 20 bucks on some flowers, plant diaries, water them a bit, look after them for a few weeks, and then they’ll look really nice. So, you know, everyone's got their strategy. There’s exercise. You know, there's meditation, yoga, you know, reading, all sorts of things that people find recharges them.
[Allie Xu] That's great, great advice. And I think it's so important. We don’t, even we as students, we still have a lot of uni work, as well as we wanted to start getting to know the world. And so we have a lot on our plate. Looking after our own well being is very important, to learn the self care strategies so we can go far. And once we become a pharmacist to have a successful pharmacy career.
[Elise Apolloni] That's right. Yeah, do the early work, you know, plant — do a good foundation now when you're a student so that when you're going through your career later on those sort of baseline things. And you know, your foundations might get shaky occasionally. But the point is, if you've got a good groundwork, you can kind of build back on top of it. Whereas, if you've already got some tricky sort of stuff going on, and the foundations are not as solid as you probably think they should be, then it's going to make it a lot harder down the track to build from there.
[Allie Xu] Hmm, definitely.
[Allie Xu] Well, speaking of time off, and reflection, and all that, what are somethings you would do differently if you restart your pharmacy career? Have you thought about that?
[Elise Apolloni] It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because, you know, people are very quick to say, “Oh, you know, just dive in.” And, you know, “Oh no, I'd never change a thing.” I'm sure there are things that I would change. I think I probably could have been more patient early in my career. You know, it's just the nature of the generation I’m in. You know, it's hard to sit with long term thoughts and not act on them, you know. Once you've made a decision, or, you know, a thought about what you want the future to look like, it's very hard to go, “Oh, that might be 20 years away.” You know, that's a really confronting thought for someone who's a Gen Y. But I think that, you know, on reflection, if I'd known what the future was going to look like, you know, hindsight, I probably wouldn't have been as stressed at the time about getting to the goal, or, you know, whatever the goal was at the time that I was after. But you know, you have no way of knowing, do you? So you just kind of do what you have to do at the time. You know, I think over the years, my approach to others has changed. I think, you know, at times in my career, I'm sure I had lacked insight and lacked the ability to, you know, be the best version of myself all the time. And I still don't think I'm perfect. But you know, I'm certainly, you know, just like anyone, if I'm very stressed, if I have a lot going on, you know, it does impact my ability to be the best version of myself. And so I'm sure that there's been times earlier in my career where I could have done better or been better. You know, whether it be for others, or, you know, in situations that I found myself, to have better outcomes for patients or team members, or whatever that may be. But it's all a learning experience, and you can't change what's happened or, you know. You just have to sort of learn from it and grow from it and, you know, constantly be striving for self improvement.
[Allie Xu] So if you were counseling a student about to graduate from their course, and wanted to select an internship and not knowing where to start, what's the advice for them?
[Elise Apolloni] Oh, this is a favorite topic of mine. I'm really quite passionate about this. So I often feel that people are so caught up in getting a position that they don't necessarily have a think about what it may feel like to be in that position. So what I mean by that is — sometimes you can walk into a pharmacy, and it might look amazing, or it might have all the bells and whistles, but who are you working with? You know, who is your preceptor? Who are the team members that will be nourishing you as you grow into hopefully a generally registered pharmacist? So I think instead of focusing on, you know, proximity to you know, your home, necessarily, or do you have to work weekends or not, or is there a late night shift or whatever that may be, I think that where possible, focusing less on that and more on — “Who are the humans? Who are the pharmacists and pharmacy assistants that will be building me into the best pharmacist I can be? And are they invested in me?” And if you ask questions, you know, in your interview — because of course, it's a two way street, so I expect that when we're interviewing prospective interns, that they'll have some questions for me. And, you know, often I'm wanting them to sort of make sure that they feel that we would be a good choice for them. You know, are we going to help them practice for their exams? Are we going to, you know, make sure that they're learning on the job and make sure that they have opportunities, plenty of them to interact with patients, but also learn, you know, management skills and time management skills and problem solving? Are we just going to, you know, slot them into one role and make them do that for 12 months, which is not necessarily how pharmacists are. You know, we often are doing lots of different things at once and trying to juggle a few different hats as well. So I think, you know, picking the person that you want to train you is a really important process. So that mentor and preceptor person needs to be someone that you know can take you through that crucial year really well. And it might not always be in the area of pharmacy that you expect. I think, you know, certainly just you know, locally, often there is, you know, a real competition for hospital positions comparatively to community pharmacy. And that is neither here nor there, you know, the positions that are available are available. But, you know, we can change at any point in our career. A generally registered pharmacist can shift and does shift. I've got many friends that have changed back and forth over their careers. And you know, well out of just community and hospital as well. So I think the fixation on where it is necessarily isn't as important as who. Who are the people that you're going to be working with and how will they make you the best pharmacists they can be? Because you only get one intern year, or one intern period to really solidify that experience and you know, those learnings. You don't want to waste it, you want to make the most of it.
[Allie Xu] Mmm. Great advice, wow. So last question, if you had one piece of advice for our pharmacy students, intern pharmacists, both personally and professionally, what would it be?
[Elise Apolloni] I think it would be to just create the world that you want to live in. If you want to go to work and feel inspired and interact with your patients in a meaningful way and really care about, you know, that experience, you know, being the example that you want to see in the world is a really good start creating that environment for yourself will hopefully make others around you think, “Hey, you know, I really, you know, they seem to really like their job, they seem to be rewarded by it, you know, what are they doing that can make me, you know, like what I'm doing even more?” I think leading by example, you know, creating the environment that you want to work in, where you can influence that. And yeah, being the example that you'd like to see, you know, in the rest of the world or in other pharmacists or practitioners that you work with, I think is a really good start. Yeah.
[Allie Xu] Wow, thank you so much for your time, Elise.
[Elise Apolloni] No problems at all. Thanks for the chat.
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