Welcome to this special recap of Your Pharmacy Career podcast, proudly produced by Raven’s Recruitment - Australia’s experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years.
This week, Krysti-Lee Patterson interviews the reflective and purpose-driven consultant pharmacist Daniel Nasri.
Episode Summary
From his early days stacking shelves as a high school student in a local community pharmacy, to leading innovative projects in social prescribing, Daniel Nasri’s career has been anything but linear. In this episode of Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, Daniel sits down with host Krysti-Lee Patterson to share how he navigated the challenges of burnout, embraced purposeful career change, and built a diverse portfolio career as a consultant pharmacist, educator, and advisor.
With candid reflections on grief, fatherhood, and the power of saying yes to new opportunities, Daniel offers an authentic look at how pharmacists can shape careers that align with their values, skills, and passions.
Key Takeaways from the Episode
Change doesn’t have to be dramatic – Consider “changing lanes before changing highways” to explore new career directions without abandoning your profession overnight.
Portfolio careers can offer balance – Combining consulting, education, and advisory work can create flexibility and fresh professional energy.
Social prescribing matters – Pharmacists are uniquely positioned to address social isolation and loneliness, especially through home visits.
Networking opens doors – Sharing your professional experiences on platforms like LinkedIn can lead to unexpected collaborations.
Personal challenges shape professional values – Grief, parenthood, and life transitions can deepen empathy and refine your sense of purpose in pharmacy.
Progress over perfection – Career reinvention is messy; take small steps, try things, and let experience guide your path.
Our Partners & Supporters
Pharmaceutical Society of Australia (PSA)
Proudly brought to you by the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia. The PSA is committed to empowering pharmacists through advocacy, innovation, and industry-leading professional development. To become a member or learn more about how the PSA can support your career, visit www.psa.org.au.
Pharmacy Daily
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How to Listen
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Full Episode Transcript
Speaker 3 (00:00.302)
Welcome to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast, proudly produced by Raven's Recruitment, the experts in pharmacy career and locum services for over 30 years. Every episode is your gateway to new opportunities in the pharmacy profession, from expert advice to inspiring success stories. We're here to spark ideas, guide your career and help you achieve your goals. Stay tuned. The next step in your pharmacy journey starts here.
Hi everyone and welcome back to your pharmacy career podcast. I'm your host, Krysti-Lee Patterson. And today I'm joined by the thoughtful and inspiring Daniel Nasri, consultant pharmacist, advisor, educator and mentor. And after more than a decade in community pharmacy, Daniel has carved out a unique purpose driven portfolio career that includes HMRs, education, consulting for PhDs and even more. Daniel, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks very much, Krysti-Lee. I'm really happy to be here and have a chat with you.
Amazing. Thank you so much. Now, Daniel, when I get people in the podcast, I always ask them about their pharmacy journey and how it started. So I believe that yours started when you were in high school. What do you remember about those early days?
Yeah, a long time ago now, but yeah, I began working in pharmacy. It actually my first job at a pharmacy down the street back in year nine or 10. And it was a really positive experience. So the pharmacists I worked with were really knowledgeable. It felt like a family, the relationships they had with patients, the knowledge they were able to impart and the way they were able to help them. So it was a really positive experience. The work as well with the pharmacists themselves.
Speaker 1 (01:40.948)
didn't feel like they were my bosses. They felt like friends and mentors. And so it was a really nice work environment as well. So I think all of those things were quite impressionable in my early days working.
Yeah. So did you always think that you'd want to be a pharmacist then, like from working in that pharmacy or did something kind of trigger you to think, yes, this is definitely what I want to do? yeah, did you consider any other careers?
I did, I think, you know, towards the later stages of high school, as I was doing some subjects around, you know, biology and business studies really enjoyed those. And pharmacy just seemed like the best mix of bringing of all of those things together. so, you know, I had different preferences, know, physiotherapy and a few other health related fields and business related ones, but I think pharmacy was my first preference and it really meshed together.
what I was interested in at the time. And so it just felt like the next logical step for me.
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I think the fact that you had such a good in experience in that pharmacy that you worked at early on and you could see the difference that they make to people's lives would definitely have been, yeah, made a huge impact on you.
Speaker 1 (02:49.772)
Yeah, definitely was the case for me, yeah.
So once you graduated, spent the majority of your time in community pharmacy throughout your career. How long did you spend in community pharmacy and why did you decide to, I guess, transition from community pharmacy to have what people call a portfolio career?
Yeah. So when I started in community pharmacy, well, you know, I, would, became a pharmacist, I think 2009, 2010. But when I look back, I'm like, I've been in pharmacy since year nine, you know? So it feels like two decades, not just a little over one decade, but you know, I had a really positive internship as well. I was working in a very sort of progressive and innovative pharmacy that exposed me to so many things from, you know, CPAP to.
wound care to being on the road with credential pharmacists, visiting them, watching them in action, doing HMRs. But in terms of sort of transitioning from community pharmacy to, you know, what we might call portfolio career was probably a combination of things. did get, I guess, to the stage where I was feeling a little bit burnt out from feeling pulled in so many different directions as, as maybe you can relate when you've done.
some shifts in community pharmacies. It's been my experience where sometimes it can be very reactive. You're, you're answering phone calls, you're checking scripts, you're, you know, dealing with queries in the front of shop. And so was, it was, it felt very intense. I was working in quite high volume pharmacies and started managing some of those as well. So I learned a lot and really enjoyed it, but I think it got to the stage where I'm like, if I'm not going to pursue ownership, which is what I was envisaging from early on, even when I was at uni, I was like,
Speaker 1 (04:29.774)
I need to sort of consider some other options and you know, the pandemic was a real circuit breaker as many people have echoed in their experience. But during that time, my wife was my fiance at the time, we were trying to plan a wedding. And so we were dealing with the craziness of what was happening in community pharmacy and then, you know, changing government policies, which were changing like the weather regarding, you know, trying to organize a wedding. So it was just pretty full on and
At that point, I knew that something had to change. And so I made a decision to pull back from full-time work and started working part-time. And that really, I guess, helped me to look at my options and take some time to step back and reevaluate what it is that I wanted from my career and where I felt I can provide more value. At the same time, I had a really good working relationship with one of the GPs upstairs. And he approached me and asked me,
if I'd be open to joining a advisory committee with the primary health network or the PHN. And so that was quite instrumental as well because it was really nice to start working in a setting that was non-clinical and was more strategic and working with other healthcare providers and people in the PHN. And so that was a really positive experience. And I guess, where did my appetite for what else is out there and where else I can provide.
value as a pharmacist outside the four walls of the pharmacy.
That makes sense. And when you talked about planning a wedding during COVID, I was doing the exact same thing with my now husband and yes, crazy time. And I don't know if you ended up having your wedding during COVID times, but we did. And we only had five people at our wedding. some ways that was also really amazing because it was just cut out a lot of the stress and drama and then we live stream with the rest of it. So.
Speaker 2 (06:24.192)
Obviously it will work out and you were able to get married, which is good.
Yes. Yeah. Wow.
But you also touched on earlier in your answer about being in community pharmacy for so long and feeling pulled in different directions. I can definitely relate to that. And you mentioned that you hadn't just been in the community pharmacy for a decade. was really more, almost two decades. And I was very much the same too. So I started in pharmacy before my degree. So by the time I graduated,
I've been in community pharmacy for eight years already. So that's like longer than most people stay in their careers. So you're right. I always kind of thought the next step was ownership. It's very similar to what you, what you said, but I think now there's just so many different options that you can do. the fact that
that GP just reached out to you and asked you to sit on a committee that's kind of leapfrogged you to, I guess, true strategic roles and doing different things that still have an impact on patients, but maybe not as crazy as a very high volume pharmacy.
Speaker 1 (07:35.938)
Yeah, it was that transition as well from, I think, a very reactive environment where, especially during COVID, where it felt like we're constantly putting out fires to, guess, a area of work where there's a bit more perhaps creativity and collaboration, which was really a fresh change for me. So yeah.
Absolutely. So you're also an accredited pharmacist. Well, I know that kind of changing the names of them now, I think you're considered a consultant.
And we're also known as consultant phallosis.
tomato, tomato. But we've doing that. I'm not a HMR accredited pharmacist. So I've got an idea as to what you would do because I've sent referrals to pharmacists that do them. by managing that, what are some of the challenges or even maybe some of the things that you come across that people don't realize being a credential pharmacist?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:34.527)
Yeah. So I think it's a really unique area of pharmacy because as you might be aware, and our audience would be aware is you're visiting patients in their home to review their medications from based off the referral of a GP. so in terms of, you mentioned challenges, I think one of the challenges is that it's really a small business. And so you've got to be thinking about this. You're not just being handed a bunch of referrals. You've got to organize your schedule. You've got to
build relationships with GPs so that you're actually getting referrals. so, and there's limitations as well. We've got caps where you can't see more than a certain number of patients per month. Yeah, there's, there were, I guess, challenges going into it, but also great reward, especially in terms of the connection and the opportunities to help patients in perhaps a less rushed way to community pharmacy. And that has been.
really refreshing change for me working in that setting, but not without its challenges, you know, as I've mentioned.
Yeah, you said that it's almost having like having a small business. Well, it's not like it actually. And I think that's something that, yeah, I hadn't really considered from a HMR pharmacist perspective that yeah, you're not just, I guess, sitting back waiting for the referrals and it's just all simple and easy. It's, you've got to consider things like, I guess, the company structure. Do you set yourself up as a sole trader or a company? How do you find these referrals? I guess also to.
Peace.
Speaker 2 (10:03.958)
I know that some pharmacies, like to, guess, I guess you could call it clip the ticket a little bit and you've got to work out payment relationships there as well. And did you find that easy? I feel like that you've got more of a bit of a strategic mindset and just naturally business savvy from what I know about you. But is this something that you, I guess, had to go and find extra information about or talk to people about how to set this up?
Yeah, I think, I think the first step was really working out whether it was something I wanted to pursue. Once that decision was made, then it was really about talking to people who were already had been doing it for quite some time, leaning from their experiences and, trying to structure yourself in the best way possible. And I guess it varies for different individuals, depending on, guess, their other responsibilities. You know, some people might view HMAS as more of a, a side gig. Others, it could be like their main sort of bread and butter.
And so, yeah, I think for me it was really focusing on relationship building with my practices that I was speaking to and not just the GPs, but the practice managers, the nurses and making sure that they had systems in place so that referrals were coming through. And then for me, it was about how do I, you know, provide the most value, both in terms of the quality of the reports I'm producing and also a timely and efficient service, because, know, I'd heard
feedback from some GPs where perhaps they weren't getting timely reports back. so that affects their view of the service. And then the other thing was just realizing that in the absence or when you've got months where referrals are a little bit lower, that's not always a reflection of you or what you're doing. It's just also a reflection of the fact that GP clinics are really busy and my wife's the GP. And so we talk a lot about, you know, her work and my work. so
Sometimes it would be something like a gentle message or reminder to a general practice that I'm still here. I'm still providing the service and then a flow on of referrals would come through. So yeah, there are, are definitely different skills and things you've got to think about, but it's also rewarding to be doing, I guess, your own thing and having the flexibility and autonomy to set a schedule and make sure it works around other, you know, personal responsibilities or engagements.
Speaker 3 (12:22.222)
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Yeah, that's exactly right. And you're right, when you're doing any sort of consulting, whether it's HMRs or like in my business, like content writing and things like that, yeah, sometimes now that I've been doing it for a couple of years, I'm kind of used to that kind of ebb and flow of the work. But early on, it was very stressful because there'll be times where you literally don't have anything for a couple of months and you think, my gosh, what's happened? Yeah.
Do they not think I'm good at my job or something like that? So I'm sure you've had feelings like that as well.
sure. And even, you know, around Christmas and New Year's where there's often practices that shut down and people go on holidays. I've started to, guess account for that and expect that that things will get quieter during that time. And so, yeah, there's, there's definitely ebbs and flows, like you say, with, work, with workload.
That's it. I guess one benefit, like if you are a credentialed pharmacist and there are, I guess periods where there's maybe not much going on, especially around that December, Christmas period, I guess there's also plenty of locomotives to pick up as well during that period of time as well. So what other things do you do outside of your, your credential business? I know you sit on the, the PHN, but you also
Speaker 1 (13:49.048)
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:59.894)
educate university students as well. Yeah, maybe you could touch on on that a little bit for the
Yeah, sure. So I guess that that opportunity sort of opened up through the work I do in general practice. I'm also general practice pharmacist and I work in a couple of clinics throughout the week. And there was an opportunity to provide some tutoring to medical students at Western Sydney University. And again, it was something that was new, uncharted, but once I actually did it, I'm like, I really enjoyed this. There was, I felt energized by the experience. And so I approached
the university Dean about like other opportunities. And so just I've been appointed as a honorary fellow. And so what it has done is just, I guess, got me on their radar about different opportunities to tutor medical students on different areas. You know, we, the beginning of the year, we did one on asthma puffers and
different sort of therapeutic considerations or drug interactions and things like that. And so it's really rewarding and really enjoyable. And it's sort of an area that I see as a growing area for me of pursuit, but education at large has been something I've been enjoying and have been doing as well with the PHN. So, you know, running workshops on home medication reviews and, the importance of them and how to look at ways of like increasing implementation of that service as well as, you know,
I recently spoke at a conference on deprescribing Holy Pharmacy and that was, you know, to an audience of doctors and nurses and allied health professionals as well. So really enjoy both sort of peer to peer education as well as students at university or tertiary at a tertiary level as well.
Speaker 2 (15:42.752)
And so you mentioned that, I guess, to get that exposure to students, yeah, reaching out and saying to the university that you're interested, this is what you'd like to do. In terms of the PhD, did that sort of come through because you had that existing relationship on the committees or was that something that you again, kind of let them know to say, Hey, I'd like to be involved in this. How can I get, yeah, get a, I guess a look in, how did you approach that?
Great question. think, you know, the initial joining on the primary health or primary care advisory committee was sort of the inroad to that. But then I really focused on providing as much value as I could from a pharmacist perspective because they didn't have a pharmacist on the committee. And so I knew that there was a lot of knowledge, experience and skills that we could bring as pharmacists to the table. And so
It was sort of one thing led to another. you know, they might have a, a, another staff member from the pH and visit, uh, to one of these meetings. And then they're like, Oh, there's a pharmacist here. Can you come and speak to, would you be open to speak into a group of GPS and practices on HMS? And so it was really about saying yes to opportunities as they presented themselves and really providing as much value as I could. then, you know,
I was asked to join a healthy aging expert reference panel, which was really cool. And then that led to joining the healthy aging advisory committee. And so it was really about saying yes to these sort of little opportunities, but were great ones. And, of how I got more plugged in to work with PA channel, different projects. And that's led to, you know, a pilot project that I'm working on at the moment in social prescribing, which has been really exciting as well.
Yeah, well, that sounds really interesting. Would you be able to share a little bit about this project on social prescribing? Cause I know that's kind of, guess I don't want to call it a hot topic because it kind of devalues what the importance of it. But I know that there is a lot more talk, even just within our industry and a lot of the work is being, I guess, yeah, being highlighted a bit more, which is great. So could you share what you're working on?
Speaker 1 (17:56.632)
Of course. Yeah. So I think it started with the work I was doing as a consultant pharmacist doing medication reviews. And one of the things that kept popping up, particularly with not only, but particularly with elderly patients was this pervasive sense of loneliness and social isolation. And so I'll often check in on my patients and mental health as part of the review. And I just kept hearing these reoccurring stories of
loneliness, relationship breakdowns, people living on their own, having family that doesn't really don't really check in on them. And so it was really, I think, weighing heavily on me because it was just so sad to see that, you know, the people in their later years of life were feeling so alone and the implications for their physical health was also profound. wasn't just the effect on their mental health, which was huge, but also then, you know, physically it could be that they're less motivated to go.
see GP or to book that blood test or whatever it is that they needed to do. Sometimes I observed this correlation with perhaps there was less engagement with people, but also with their own physical health as well. So I started sort of writing about it a bit on LinkedIn and sharing my work. And I think that was the beginning of conversations and it really resonated with the people in my network because they were also.
I guess, experiencing similar things with patients that they were engaging with. You know, it came up in conversations with the healthy aging advisory committee. And I think there was a whole combination of things happening at one, you know, sort of at the same time and timing was really good. And so I connected with Jenny Kirshner who, you know, created the, world first pharmacist training on loneliness and social isolation. And she interviewed me as part of the training there. And so we sort of started talking as well to the PHN and they were, think,
also on board and on across this. And so they wanted to roll this out in community pharmacy. So there was a program that was rolled out for community pharmacy. And I also suggested them like, look, I think there's also a place for consultant pharmacists to be able to really provide social prescribing services to patients, you know, separate two HMRs or
Speaker 1 (20:12.258)
You know, you can identify patients during those HMIs, but then later I'll reach out to them and, help them get connected. And I guess in a nutshell, social prescribing is really about connecting people to non-clinical services that can help improve their, their social wellbeing. And so that's where it really started. And so I did some training with the PHN around that. And it was like a website that. Geographically shows us, you know, what services are available in the area and how to connect.
people to those services. so it was, it was, it's been really exciting and that pilot is being extended, which is really, which is really cool. So I'm looking forward to continuing the work there and seeing, guess both what impact we can have and perhaps what data we can get that would make this business as usual, as opposed to sort of, another extra.
Yeah, absolutely. That sounds really interesting. And yeah, you're right. I think there's a huge opportunity for consultant pharmacists to be involved in that process and makes sense, especially because you're actually going to the person's home, right, as well. So you get to see things that you probably wouldn't pick up when these patients are coming in the pharmacy. I think you might see a different side of them.
Yeah, we're really, it's, I counted a privilege that we're, I guess, able to, to visit patients in their home. And often the kind of things that we see both in terms of, you know, medication management, but also living conditions and all of these other things are things that other healthcare providers, pharmacists, GPs, or otherwise are not necessarily privy to. And so it's a privilege, but it's also an opportunity to really help people when we identify needs in this space.
Yeah, absolutely. yeah, I'm excited to see where this goes and I hope it does just become business as usual. That's really exciting. And I think for those that are listening, just the fact that this almost just started from you just sharing some experiences on LinkedIn. Like you really don't know where things can lead to and the people you connect with. And even if it's not something then and there at that moment, like maybe a few months down the track or even years down the track.
Speaker 2 (22:19.819)
these people that you've connected with, can think, actually I'm working on this thing, maybe we should get connected.
much value in fostering these professional relationships and nurturing them. think LinkedIn and platforms like that are very sort of underutilized and they are so much more than just platforms to share that you've got a new job. is a networking platform and so I think there's a lot of utility and benefit in sharing the work you do and it can lead to collaborations and opportunities and just expanding your horizons of what's out there.
When you've got yourself in a pharmacy or whatever context and you're just grinding away, doing the work, it's sometimes you just don't notice or know what's out there until you sort of, yeah, look for it.
Yeah, exactly. And being authentic and speaking about your experiences on these platforms as well, I think is really powerful. You're right. It's not just a, this person's got a new job update. Like, yeah, that's interesting. But I know I really value the posts where people are sharing, yeah, about maybe something more personal or something that they've experienced and or hey, there's a challenge here. Do you know anyone that can help out? Like I think those sort of things on these sort of
social networking sites, especially LinkedIn, I've found really valuable.
Speaker 1 (23:40.396)
Yeah, yeah, most definitely.
Now, Daniel, we kind of briefly touched on a bit of your personal life during COVID. So you married and last time I saw you was actually at PSA conference last year. And since then you've now become a dad, which is really exciting. So I just would like to ask, yeah, how is that going? And how are you managing the, I guess that
I hate saying work-life balance because it means that it's something that you've got to try and achieve, but I think just that's just life. think work is part of life. So how are you managing that with a new little one running around or maybe not quite running around just yet?
Yeah, almost, wanting to, sure. think the first four months in particular were, were really, it was a really rough time for us. So just sort of taking a step, a one step back before our baby arrived, Samuel, the year before, unfortunately my, my mom was diagnosed with metastatic cancer and passed away in a matter of, matter of weeks. Yeah. It was a very, very confronting experience and, and
you know, shook our worlds. But the reason I say that is when our baby was born, it was a very bittersweet experience for me because I was really surprised that grief had popped up in a really sort of intense way when, when the baby Samuel was born. And so it was what's described to you as a very exciting time for me was actually marked by, by heaviness. Cause there was this sense of, really wish mom was here to, to see her grand, grandson.
Speaker 1 (25:24.834)
So yeah, that, was, that was hard. And then the other thing was, we had a very sort of traumatic birthing experience. In fact, it was a life threatening for both, for both mom and my wife and my son. And so it was a whole bunch of things. The heck just happened now. Yeah. So the first four months I'd say were, were, were super rough. And I think I'm really thankful that I had transitioned out of a community pharmacy prior to that.
because it really afforded me the bandwidth and space to step back and reschedule or, or fit things around what was happening outside of work. And so that has been a real blessing for me, but I'm, you know, very thankful to report that things have improved a lot after that first sort of four months of craziness. It's been a real joy with many challenges as well. Not the least of which is the lack of.
sleep
Yes, well.
Yeah, but it's been a real perspective shift as well being a father now in terms of how I approach work or my views on work and purpose and career and direction. It really, I think forces you to think about these things. And it's actually surprisingly what I thought would have been putting me back in my career, like, you know, putting a delay to things vocationally for me. I think it's actually been a driver for better work. You know, for me, it's about, okay, so like.
Speaker 1 (26:51.95)
It's made me look at my systems and go, okay, what can I be doing more efficiently? Because if there's admin work that I'm doing that I could, you know, use technology to improve or to, to streamline, that means I've got more time to spend with my family. And so it's, it's forced me to ask questions that have improved the way I do things as well and continue to do that.
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I almost think I wonder if the fact that you did lose your mom so close to you and your wife having your own child, it's almost you really understanding the value of spending quality time with the people that you love and they're close to you. And so I don't know if you've reflected on this, but I feel that
almost has probably had a huge impact on you as well as to how you're going to be bringing up Samuel and your family book because you don't have the luxury anymore of being able to spend time with your mum and so we are cherishing those moments.
Yeah, it's really, I guess, brought to a head the sacredness of time and how precious it is, you know, and also it's given me really a front row seat to how the fragility of life, you know, each day, there's a quote that I love that it says each day is a gift and not a given right. And so also brought to my awareness, how little control we actually have. There are things that are within our control, but there are so many other things that are way outside our control.
And it's taught me a sense of acceptance that there are things that we can't control and we've got to be able to, sit in a space of acceptance and go, that's okay. What, what can I control? What is within my power to, to action good or to help or whatever it is. So yeah, I think there's been some big lessons from that. And I think it's also really informed, I guess, the work that I do in social prescribing, because I think in the aftermath of
Speaker 1 (28:52.886)
mom's loss, it's been also seeing the loneliness and social isolation, perhaps of my father and other, other people who have experienced loss as a result. And so what it's taught me is, know, and I guess we, might know this, but it's really distilled it for me is that everyone is facing a battle we may know nothing about. And so it's helped me approach.
people, whether it's peers or patients with, more empathy and with more, I guess, understanding because we genuinely don't know, you know, when I was for, for those weeks in, in, hospital by my mom's side, that felt like the world was just going on by and my world was collapsing and we just don't know. and, you know, when we, when we then, you know, when I'm doing HMRs and I have this opportunity to check in on my, patients, it is a unique.
experience for them to share things that, they've told me like, I've shared things with you that I've not even shared with my doctor. And so, you know, we, have, we have a privilege if we tap into it we ask questions and create safety for people to share what's going on for them.
think that's really, really insightful. I think everyone would know that right in their mind, but it's just almost like just bringing it to the forefront. And if you think about different workplaces as well, it's so easy just to get involved.
in the grind and what's happening and even just with staff as well. Like I know you've managed pharmacies before and yeah, just you don't know what's happening with these people. Yeah, beyond what you're seeing. so sometimes, yeah, trying to step back and try and think, yeah, what else could be going on? I think could be a really good thing to understand, not just from a patient perspective, but then also, yeah, from a staff perspective as well, if you're in that space where you are.
Speaker 2 (30:49.786)
and managing your team or just a part of a team.
Yeah. And it's, it's, it's really about taking that time to firstly build relationships where there's trust and rapport and safety for people to share, but then asking the questions because otherwise you're, can be, you can make the mistake of running on assumptions rather than actually knowing what's going on. Yeah.
That's a really good point. Daniel, is there anything else that you wanted to share today with the conversation? Our time on the podcast is nearly coming to an end. And I feel like we've covered so much ground from your early days in community pharmacy, HMRs, education, talking about the challenges that you've had personally, but then coming through that on the other side. Is there anything else you'd really like to share?
with our listeners.
Yeah, I think perhaps for pharmacists who are considering a change in career or feel stuck where they are, a couple of things that I found helpful and I hope it can be of value to our listeners or to listeners is saying yes to opportunities that come, but also to pursue opportunities rather than waiting for them to come to you. So I think that that's been important.
Speaker 1 (32:06.688)
A piece of advice that was given to me once by a friend when I was sort of contemplating change, said to me, I consider changing lanes before changing highways. and what he meant by that is that it doesn't have to be something dramatic overnight. I'm going to move into finance or something completely. Sometimes it can be just a small shift and that can make all the difference in terms of career satisfaction. And, you know, I think we're very privileged as pharmacists in today's day and age where we are able to create.
a career by design rather than one that's been dished out to us or one by default. The opportunities that are out there, I think we need to go out and speak to people because you just don't know what you don't know. So yeah, these are just a few things that I wanted to encourage the listeners with today.
I completely agree with that and especially with Seku-Wan around finding the opportunities as well, putting yourself out there. I know, yeah, a lot of people say, you have to say yes to these things. But if you're sitting around waiting for these things to just fall across your lap, like that's not the way it happens. And whilst it might look like that sometimes from the outside, yeah, there's sometimes like a lot of work put in behind the scenes. So like we were chatting earlier around like...
networking and things like that. so you don't, it's not that you're networking, going out to find some, what this opportunity is, but it's just being open, I think. So from my perspective, that's kind of what I take from that.
Yeah. And I think in, being open, like I think that the realizations were a lot progress can look in a progress towards change can be messy. It's not some linear line where everything's straightforward and it is messy. And sometimes you take a few steps back, few steps forward. But I think my experience has been especially as a bit of a perfectionist in pharmacy and making sure, you know, you don't make mistakes and things like that. That doesn't serve us as well when it comes to change. And so I focus on sort of progress over perfection and letting action.
Speaker 1 (34:03.822)
give you feedback rather than overthinking things. think sometimes it's when we take those steps and try different things and let the feedback that comes from that inform our next steps is where our progress is made as opposed to sort of try to think through the perfect strategy or exit strategy or whatever it is. I don't think that exists or it hasn't been my experience.
Anyway, yes, I totally agree. And it definitely hasn't been my experience either. And just to expand on that, think to when you that friend of yours that mentioned about changing lanes before changing highways, I think that's really powerful. And I think sometimes from the outside.
If you're watching people's careers progress, it might look like people are just all of a sudden changing highways or maybe they're not even in a car anymore, they're flying away in a helicopter. And you think how on earth did that happen? But yeah, there's, if I look back on my own career and you're probably the same, there's all these like little moments that probably started you on the trajectory. Like you talked about community pharmacy, but then just dropping down to part, like part-time first.
Like that then open, that's a huge change, but then it's a stepping stone to giving you a little bit more freedom to explore other things. So I think, yeah, sometimes, yeah, those, that those changing lane things can lead to changing highways down the track, but you just might not realize it at the time.
Yeah. And I think it's really about enjoying the journey and realizing that that change takes time. It doesn't happen overnight. And so it's part of this. It's just about embracing that journey and giving it time.
Speaker 2 (35:38.094)
Absolutely. Although it would be nice if it did just happen overnight. But let's be honest, that is not life. That is not real life. Oh, Daniel, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you today, getting to know you a little bit more on a personal level and hearing about your career over the last, I guess, couple of decades since year nine in working in pharmacy. Thank you for coming on the show.
No.
Speaker 2 (36:06.216)
Really appreciated it. Thank you very much.
for having me, Crystal Lee. Really enjoyed having a
Good job with you. Thank you.
Thanks for tuning in to Your Pharmacy Career Podcast.
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Final Thoughts
Daniel’s story is a reminder that pharmacy careers don’t have to follow a single, pre-set path. With curiosity, persistence, and a willingness to explore beyond the dispensary, it’s possible to craft a career that is not only professionally rewarding but personally fulfilling.
His journey through community pharmacy, consultancy, education, and social prescribing shows how pharmacists can have a meaningful impact both within and beyond the traditional pharmacy setting. By embracing small shifts, building genuine professional relationships, and remaining open to new possibilities, you can create opportunities that align with your skills, values, and life stage.
For pharmacists considering their own next steps, perhaps the question is not“Should I make a change?”but rather“What’s my next lane change toward the career I want?”
